CF: Re: Spell failures, the programmer weighs in

[Peter Mardahl <>]

> Michael Martin wrote:
> > IMHO, making monsters more powerful is not necessary.  The real problem is
> > that players can become way too powerful.  For example, I once had a
> 
> Agreed - at least it's too easy.

Possibly this is a map problem.  I don't think any of the
ORDINARY artifacts which are handed out are much of a problem.
The ones you make are the real trouble.

> > closer to a doubling of experience.  This would dramatically cut down on
> > the number of ultra-powerful characters, and in turn the nasty monsters
> > would still be nasty. 

It's already worse than just gaining x experience to gain a level.
You get less experience/monster as you go up in level, so it gets
harder already.  

> Another thing is that characters become more powerful than their level
> would suggest (using artifact weapons). And you get MUCH more experience
> from higher level monsters. And a 50 lev fighter + "demonbane +10" has

A *big* problem is that you can spray cone spells over a MULTI-SQUARE
monster and kill him easily.  I figure a big dragon, at 6 squares and
3000hp, is *easier* to kill than a "baby" dragon, at 1 square and
1250hp.  A big dragon is 2.5 times *easier* to kill with icestorm!!!!!

And I won't even mention how easy it is to kill a demon lord with
Holy Word.

At one point  I hacked something to balance this a bit:  I made
it so that cone spells couldn't go through monsters.  In this way,
you could only hit the front of a monster with a cone spell,
and cone spells in general are weaker.  It's one of the #defines
in config.h, NOT a default.

> little difficulty with the lev 100 angels in Lake Country. And he gets
> tons of experience points. (And you get even *more* exp if the
> artifact gives a stat bonus.)

Lots of monsters in lake country need adjustment.  End of story.


> What I did in my version (or plan to do) was removing most artifacts 
> from the treasure file. I think they should almost NEVER be handed out
> randomly. Better make them quest items so charaters have to start with 
> simple equipment and EARN the artifacts.

Why don't you design some better maps?

> [I once got a(!) One Ring from killing a red dragon; should never happen!

Well, the One Ring is really rare.  One solution is to have a lot of
artifacts in the artifacts file, so that the least probable item shows
up more rarely.  I've never seen the One Ring come randomly in a dungeon,
only in a shop.  Having things show up in shops *is* a problem.

> I'm planning to put some mid-level artifacts at the end of the maps
> I'm working at. (e.g. large fireball spell, ring of life/magic, stat potions,
> amulet ac+2, etc) Of course that's quite pointless as long as these things
> are sold out in the shops.

> > > I agree here, mana blast SHOULD perhaps do more a percentage of damage
> > > than a fixed amount.
> > 
> > It makes sense to me to have the failure effect "proportional" to the
> > difference in levels between the spell and the spellcaster.  If a
> > 12th-level mage botches a 1st-level spell, no big deal (maybe lots of
> > flowers appear ;).  But if he botches a 12th-level spell, look out!

When I hacked the spell failure effects, I did make it proportional,
though also random.  You're *more* likely to get a big disaster like
madness or a mana storm from a difficult spell than an easy one, and
it also depends on how much encumbrance the player had.

> He should more likely FAIL with a high level spell. But the damage
> should better be depend on his hp or his spellcasting level.

Modulating the damage by the players properties i have NOT done.

> Note: spell_failure_effect does NOT the same as a failed scroll. The 
> magic of the scroll is warped randomly, I think. Spell_failure_effect
> does only wonder/confusion/mana storm and does not take into account
> the level of the spell (afaik).

You are correct, unless someone changed this. This is how I programmed
it.  Random spells are distasteful, I prefer to screw the player
in certain predictable ways, not inadvertently help him.

> (no need to kill the player for a failed spell). I'd suggest e.g. 
> confusion (BAD in a room full of monsters), sleep, desruction, curse
> (an item), summon hostile monsters, magic draining. All bad things but
> not fatal.

Perhaps the mana storm is too severe?  It's not difficult to change,
though it does require a little hacking.

PM