Re: CF: FBBB v1.01 is now up

[Maciej Kalisiak <>]

Scott Wedel writes:
 > The standard newbie info describes how the player interacts with the
 > game in order to physically play the game.  It also includes info on
 > the structure of the game (ie the game's rules) and the minimal knowledge
 > base which would be know by all characters (ie location of major cities,
 > info on religons, weapons, armor and so on).  Thus, newbie info adds to
 > the play value since it is a tutorial on playing the game.

Yes, I agree.

 > The info for those without the patience to explore every dungeon or
 > ever learn things the hard way is known as cheats.  Cheats add to

Well, I would not call them cheats because they do not help you cheat
in the game. "Drop a ring in the well and you'll get unlimitted money"
is a (fictitious for CF) cheat. I think spoiler is a better term, as
these can possibly "spoil" your game. I don't think that EVERYTHING
outside the "newbie info" necessarily constitutes a cheat/spoiler. To
me a spoiler is a shortcut: it tells you about something that you
would have figured out on your own given enough time. Not everything
outside the "newbie info" fits that description. For example: the
whole discussion of the bracers and AC, the blurb on the different
apartment types, or an even more classical example from Nehack:
writing "Elzbereth"(sp?) on the floor. These things constitute tidbits
of info which you can't really say is beginner stuff, yet which you
will usually not find out on your own. Furthermore, tips by players on
how they deal with different problems does not necessarily constitute
a spoiler either. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, so
showing you a different way of doing something will usually not spoil
your game.

To summarize: I'm of the opinin that "go here, look under statue, get
key, go there, use key" is a spoiler, while "loot harvesting" is more
of a tip.

 > some people's play value since otherwise they'd quit (even a game as
 > open ended as CF which doesn't require completing any particular
 > dungeon).  Cheats greatly decrease play values for others since it
 > removes the more difficult challenges from the game.

I don't think any of the tips on the page so far "greatly decrease
play value" by "removing the more DIFFICULT challenges" of the
game. They are all rather shallow give-aways, if even that. None of
them greatly affect game play.  But in general I agree, MAJOR spoilers
do that.

 > Cheats should be kept far away from newbie info since the game can
 > essentially be ruined for a newbie whom accidently reads a cheat page.

Yes, that separation should be there. I'm working on it right now.

 > A cheat page should also take care to break itself into categories and

Yep, I'll be adding more categories there too.

 > individual dungeons so that a player in need of help can limit the

Well, now here you are talking about major spoilers. How to do something
in a particular map (which in essence means that the puzzle's solution 
is being given to the reader). That's not what I intended the page to
be, nor is there anything on the page right now which constitutes such 
a spoiler. I'm not sure that there is much demand for this right now,
especially since the best place to go with such a question is on the
mailing list (where all the experts reside, and which are most likely
to have intimate knowledge of your map).

-- 
                                                         Maciej Kalisiak
Neil Armstrong tripped.                              
                                                   
                                               www.eecg.utoronto.ca/~mac
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