Re: CF: Relations, races and gods

[Mark Wedel <>]

David Sundqvist wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Mark Wedel wrote:
> >  Unfortunately, a lot of maps requiring killing large numbers of certain
> > creatures.
> 
> Well, that might be solved in the balancing and eventual map remake.
> Another thing is that different group members would affect rating
> differently. Killing a random orc would hardly affect group relations,
> while killing a special, like a leader, an orc king, or named npc would
> affect relations a whole lot more.

 This would obviously have to be done by setting up attributes in the object for
a 'kill penalty'.  So this requires a lot of map updates.

=
> Well, IMO, ideally actual groups or 'factions' should be separated from
> gods and race and be more flexible. The way I'd suggest it would work
> would be that each faction has an initializer value against stereotypes,
> which can be in a range from attack on sight (<50) through neutral (128)
> to good friend (>200). Stereotypes would be religion, race and perhaps
> class. The first time a player meets a member of a certain faction, an
> invisible inventory item with the initializer value is set. For example, a
> human priest of Gaea meets with an orc of The Orcs of Scorn. The Orcs of
> Scorn faction has initializer relations with hatred for humans and Gaea,
> and will attack on sight. If the same orc meets with an halforc warrior of
> Gnarg, where they have only a dislike for halforcs and a liking for Gnarg,
> then the orc might not attack unless attacked first. There could be a
> forest orc faction that actually like Gaea, and if the same priest met one
> of those, the liking for Gaea would balance out the hatred for humans and
> they might just dislike the priest, but not attack.

 I think that might be overkill.  And it only really makes sense for
interactions with players, as most monsters don't have gods and don't hav a use
for gods.

 However, the above does give the thought to promote the race field from a
simple string to a more complex structure that does have more relations.

 So a definition may be like:

race orc
members orc, orc-lord, uruk-hai
friends goblin, ogre
enemy elf, dwarf
endrace


 Anything not a friend or enemy is treated as neutral.  the friends would
actually refer to other races, as do the enemies.  the members would be what
archetypes contain to the race.  In reality, the archetype itself should point
to the right race definition.

 The above definition would basically replace the race file (which in
retrospect, was an easy way to set up races, but is not needed since the same
could already have been done in the archetypes).  Or maybe instead of having a
conglomerated race file, instead, in the arch tree have various .race files that
then get built as part of the collect process (thus, the race definition would
be in the same directory as the monsters that use them.)  Same could perhaps be
done with treasure lists.


> 
> Or you could simply let the factioning take care of the problem; killing a
> goblin would decrease your standing with both the clerics of your god (and
> your god in itself), as well as other goblin factions (while it may
> increase your standing with some groups). The next time you go to pray in
> the temple you're in for a nasty surprise. And even if you consecrate an
> altar somewhere else, you'll hardly get good rewards from your god.

 This starts to seem a bit more complicated.  In reality, god relations should
not be affected much - I am presuming that both the player and monsters don't
have things saying 'my god is XXX' pasted on their chest.  So if you run into
some orcs, they would have no idea what your god is, and likewise you would have
no idea what their god is.

 So god relations, if added at all, should be very indirect.  I think for
simplicity, there isn't really any need to add god relations.  Since each god
has some races related to it (and in face, to extend the race definition above,
the race could also have an entry for the default god), I think it would
probably be good enough to see what races the good is allied and an enemy with,
look that up in the player structure (who is presumably the only one who will
really care about relations), and adjust accordingly.  But this should really
only be needed when dealing with relations of the god themselves.  A player in
bad standing with the goblin guard is not likely to be able to easily convert. 
And if you are in bad standing with your god, then the random benefits you get
should be lower.
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