Re: Future crossfire gameplay, was Re: CF: incompatible objects (was Re: Experiments)

[Hwei Sheng TEOH <>]

On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Mark Wedel wrote:

> 
>  Just as a side note, if replying to the list, no reason to CC me also, since I
> am on the list.
> 
>  It was brought up by someone of what should the direction of the game be.  My
> preferance is more role playing (as best a computer game can do it) - but
> certainly more problem solving/conversations with NPC's to get information and
> less kill everything in sight.

Agreed.

>  A few thoughts in various areas:
> 
> 1) We really need to think if there should be some maximum level or exp point or
> something.  I think the game was originally designed to about level 30 or so (at
> least you keep get new spells until about level 20).  But as time has passed and
> people reached that point, the total gets increased, and then people reach that,
> and then increased again, and so on.  I have definately set the current 110 as a
> maximum and not willing to raise it higher, but the question of whether it
> should perhaps be lower is approriate.  If you have a more compact range of
> levels, I think it is easier to get more good dungeons.

Another way would be to add more spells/items/quests suited for higher levels.
But this might started leading towards the "creeping immunity monsters"
problem, and the super-artifact problem, all over again.

Although, what I have in mind was to add more elements to the game, such as
reputation. There was a discussion of regional settings for player reputation
before -- I was thinking we could capitalize on this, by having the player's
reputation increase as his level increases. Players could start out with a
good reputation only in certain places (like his city of origin). Access to
other places would be somewhat restricted (the guards don't like you).

As the player's level (and thus overall reputation) increases, some cities
begin to be more welcoming, having heard of your fame. Citizens could perhaps
allow you into new areas where you couldn't go before because nobody trusted
you enough. They could also have new quests, etc..

As an additional twist, different players can start in different cities and
initially have access to different places each. As the character gains level,
he can now safely visit cities where other players came from. This makes it
more interesting to re-play the game and selecting a different city to start
with, for example.

The good thing about this is that we won't need increasingly difficult maps
(which could cause the creeping immunity problem, among other things) -- it
would just be curiosity driving the player to achieve higher levels so that
his better reputation will allow him to explore more places. These places
don't have to be high-level.

>  2) From the discussion a few months back, removing the hordes of monsters and
> instead having fewer but more interesting monsters is I think the way to go. 
> Right now, some things, like the newbie dungeon, has hundreds of monsters.  If
> you can take them 2 wide, you can take them all out.  Reducing the amount will
> have several (I think) good effects - exp gain should be slower, might be easier
> for mages (only needs enough spells to kill a couple monsters, and not hordes of
> thems), and money gain should be slower (not as much monster created loot). 
> Also, it may help in the mentality of not everything should be killed if you see
> fewer monsters out there.  With this, getting more of the experience from
> completing the quests (like many of the commercial games do) and less from the
> actual slaying of monsters may make it more interesting.

Agreed.

> 3) The idea of opposing artifacts and the like is nice.  It adds some to the
> roleplay experience, but also adds some repeat play value - before, I played a
> fighter and got all the fighter items.  Lets try playing as a mage this time and
> get all the mage items and see how that works out.
> 
>  To do that, I see the following needs to be done:
> 
> 1) Some reasonable mythos/creation story behind the crossfire world.  Where did
> the gods come from, and how did the current relations relate.  Note that this is
> something that a creative person with no programming experience can do.  This
> adds flavor to the game, but also will help in designing maps and artifacts - if
> you have some story behind the gods and major players, you can come up with
> artifacts they may or may not have created
> 
> 2) Improved NPC logic is needed.  Lets face it, right now NPC's are pretty
> stupid.  At minimum, some things like NPC's being able to take and give items
> would be a nice touch.
>
> 3) Improved conversation logic with NPC's,  right now, it can be frustrating
> trying to find the exact keyword which the NPC matches.  Some games have the NPC
> say stuff, and gives the player a few options to respond with - I don't know if
> it should be that limiting, but a simple state system so that the NPC continues
> with his story if the player says most anything at all might be nice.

Agreed. Right now, many maps where you need to tell a password to an NPC (or
say something to have him give you an item) are implemented by using magic
ears that match the password and connect to something. Nothing wrong with
this, but gives you the strange effect that the password still works after you
kill the NPC, and the object still appears out of nowhere when you say the
right word. :-)
Didn't someone mention coding things like NPC's pulling switches, etc.
(something like @apply switch, analogous to the current @match keyword)?

>
> 4) More quests that seem of some importance.  Right now, most all the stuff on
> the map basically seems like someone pointing you to adventure, with no real
> need for anyone to do it or not do it.  It would be nice to somehow reward the
> players or at least acknowledge the players did some quest.  NPC's might comment
> 'oh - your that fellow that cleared out the sewers'.  But even some of the stuff
> that is pointed to really is just a place to kill stuff.  Certainly there should
> still be some of that in the game, but that shouldn't be the premier job for the
> player.

Seems to me that we'll want to *really* restrict what artifacts can be
randomly generated... right now, too many good artifacts can be generated in
maps that have the random_artifact object, and this detracts from the
motivation to solve a quest that gives you an artifact you already have. (Or
makes you feel cheated when you discover the quest reward is something you
already have). And certainly it makes it hard to come up with quests that are
actually worthwhile to solve and aren't pure hack-and-slash.

Particularly notorious are places like the 4th floor in the Adventurous Shop
on Dragon Island -- once you have access to the Guild, you can ride a dragon 
into the 5th floor, and all you need is to kill 2 dragons (and a dragon
hatchling), disarm a few traps, and you'll get a random artifact (the
demilichs don't even attack unless you provoke them). Do this often enough and
there's hardly any need to solve any of the artifact quests any more.


T

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