Re: Classes and Races, was Re: CF: Alternate proposal: MARK the power crystals

[David Andrew Michael Noelle <>]

Mark Wedel wrote:
> 
> David Andrew Michael Noelle wrote:
> 
> >
> >     I believe the direction we're going is away from pre-defined character
> > classes and more toward skills based on usage.  If you want to start out as
> > a fighter and learn magic later, go ahead.  Your initial choice will
> > determine your maximum natural stats though, so a fighter who later becomes
> > a wizard will need several more +Power artifacts to get the same number of
> > spell points.
> 
>  Are we really going in that direction?

    Perhaps not.  That's where we are, but now that you mention it, I do
recall a fair number of questions about where to go from here.


[...]
>  The starting classes/races should probably be done.  Lets really make them the
> races, and get rid of some of the classes (cleric, mage, monk, ninja, priest,
> swashbuckler, thief, and perhaps viking).  I leave in barbarian as a type of
> race - it could be argued the viking is also in that category.
> 
>  Ideal solution is to have both race and class.

    I agree.  It's rather odd having thief, warrior, and wizard on the same
list as human, half-orc, and quetzlcouatl.  I'm not entirely sure whether
classes are necessary, since they don't affect anything else once you have
your starting stats, skills, and equipment.


>  Race would determine stat adjustments (and various regen rates).  Class would
> determine starting skills and equipment.
> 
>  It could be said that some classes should be limited - not all races.  On the
> other hand, if that fireborn wants to become a fighter, good luck to him.

    Perhaps this would be a good use for those "guilds" that just sit there,
taking up space, in most of the towns.  After creating a character and
choosing a race, you could choose your class and get your starting equipment
and skills by signing up in one of the guilds.  Around the time I first
joined this list, there was some discussion of micro-quests where the
player's choices would determine what skills and equipment they would get
when they exited the initial "limbo" area and appeared in the middle of
Scorn.  Those could be incorporated into the guilds, along with some special
gate that only allows characters with no chosen class to enter and some
special space that assign's the player's class and gives them their initial
skills.


>  This would add some more distinction, but also clean up some things (right now,
> there are too many starting professions which seem to basically be the same).
> With such a change, I would probably make skill scrolls very rare (or quest only
> items), so to get new skills would be difficult.  In that way, what combination
> you choose has at least some real relevance for a while.

    Skill scrolls might even be removed altogether if skills could be
learned in guilds.  The thieves' guild for example, might teach things like
stealing and hiding for free to thieves, but charge a great deal of money to
anyone else.  Literacy, spellcasting, and alchemy would be available in the
mages' guild, melee weapons, missile weapons, and punching could be learned
in the warriors' guild, and praying and sense curse in the various temples.
    Perhaps guilds could even train their members beyond simply having or
not having a skill.  What if skills were based on experience categories, but
could have bonuses added at guilds?  A warrior with level 10 physique
currently has level 10 in all the physique skills he knows.  Maybe further
training at the fighters' guild could increase individual skills, so a
fighter who prefers crossbows might have level 12 in missile weapons, and
level 10 in the rest.  This should probably be limited to something like one
additional skill level for every five experience levels, for each experience
category.


> >     While I'm on the topic of character races, how about Lycanthropes?
> > They'd need a special "shapeshifting" skill, to change from human form to
> > were-form, which would be a little tricky to code, but would probably be
> > interesting enough to be worth the effort.
> 
>  I'd have to think about that.  Currently, there is no real shape change code in
> place, and even if there is, the monsters don't care about it much.  So shape
> changing to a wolf/panther/bear/whatever really won't have anything more than a
> neat effect.

    Changing the character's appearance would be just a cosmetic thing.  The
important part of the transformation would be some significant stat changes
and inability to wear armour or use weapons.  Perhaps even inability to use
many skills, like missile weapons, karate, spellcasting, lockpicking, and
anything else that requires an opposable thumb or humanoid vocal cords.


> >     They'd also need some vulnerability to offset their advantage over basic
> > barbarians and ninjas.  I'd like to say vulnerabilty to silver, but I can't
> > see adding an attacktype: silver for that.  An alternate would be to add
> > some more silver weapons, like the bolt of "silver head", and making them
> > "slaying: vampire, lycanthrope"
> 
>  The problem is that such items tend to be fairly rare, so would really not be
> much of a disadvantage (how often would that get fired on the creatures.)

    Well, there isn't an easy answer to that one.  Most races don't have any
vulnerability and aren't listed in anyone's slaying field.  Those who do,
have a very good reason for it.  There aren't any attacktypes or slaying
weapons for lycanthropes yet, because there simply aren't any lycanthropes
in Crossfire yet.  That's no reason not to add them, though.  Vulnerability
to silver is a well known part of the myth, so it would have to be
implemented in some way if lycanthropes were added.  Since nobody uses
silver weapons yet, except the occasional angel who happens to accidentally
have some bolts of silver head, it wouldn't be a major disadvantage to
were-players yet, but it eventually could be, at which time it would need to
be rebalanced.


>  Addition of were creatures could be much more interesting if/when some internal
> time scale gets added to crossfire.  So when in crossfire time it is the full
> moon, the player becomes a were creature, with all the disadvantages there in
> (can't use/carry much of anything).  Being a lycanthrope is supposed to be a
> curse after all.

    It would indeed be a curse if the player didn't have complete control
over the transformation, and simply having the shapeshifting skill wouldn't
necessarily give them that control.  It might only be usable a certain
number of times per game-month, depending on the player's level.  It might
only work at night, even if they do have the skill to control it.  There
might be a minimum amount of time before they can change again, regardless
of skill.  There might be only a chance of success, even if all the other
factors are favorable, so the player might have to concentrate for a while
in order to intentionally transform.

    The benefit that goes with the uncontrollable shapeshifting into a
creature who doesn't make a particularly effective adventurer, would be
greatly enhanced hit point regeneration.  Were-forms might be fairly good
natural fighters at low levels, but the inability to use anything but
amulets and potions in that form is a severe limitation.  There really isn't
anything else I can think of that would work as well for a quadruped as it
does for a humanoid.  Fireborn and Quetzlcouatl players at least have
opposable thumbs or talons to aim a wand with, and are presumably capable of
reading aloud, but even if a werewolf can read, what good is a scroll if
your vocal cords are temporarily limited to barks and growls?


>  The time system will also add much to the crossfire RPG experience.  Certain
> gods may have certain holy days/times, and praying on those may get better
> effects (or maybe the gods spells just work better on that day).

    Sounds good to me.  Lycanthropes as a race are just a random idea that
occurred to me while I was typing that previous message, and definitely need
some more thought before any serious consideration of implementing them. 
And even then, they're probably too dependent on game time to start working
on them before Crossfire has a real time system.  Still, I'm starting to
like the idea, and I think it might be worth some further investigation.

-- 
            -Dave Noelle,                 
            -the Villa Straylight,  http://www.straylight.org
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Disclaimer: The above opinions aren't even mine
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