From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 29 10:01:43 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Fri, 30 Apr 1993 02:01:59 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cats.UCSC.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1993 02:01:56 +0200 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.UCSC.EDU with SMTP id AA24037; Thu, 29 Apr 93 17:01:43 -0700 Received: by am.ucsc.edu (5.65/4.7) id AA01245; Thu, 29 Apr 93 17:01:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 17:01:43 -0700 Message-Id: <9304300001.AA01245@am.ucsc.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Subject: Alchemy Status: RO Some people say it will greate alter the game. However, I wonder how true that is. As I play now, typically, after I clear out the level, I grab everything, take it to the nearest shop (and if that is far away, use word of recall) and then sell it. All an alchemy spell would do for me is make things a bit easier (Collect as I go, and not have a 50 item inventory.) I suppose the big inventory could be corrected with bags, but I couldn't figure out how to pick something up and put it in the bag directly. Also, alchemy wouldn't allow you to get any more money than you would otherwise get by hauling all the stuff back to the store in the first place. I like to see various opinions about this. So far, some have been for it, some against. The only thing that would seem to change with an alchemy spell is the actual time it takes to retrieve and sell the stuff. This is more relevant in a multiplayer game than in single player (unfortunately, I don't have the ability to play in multiplayer games..) From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 29 05:18:57 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 02:19:30 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from joyce.cs.su.OZ.AU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 02:19:20 +0200 Message-Id: <199304290019.AAifi.uio.no20599@ifi.uio.no> Received: from moria.cs.su.oz.au (for ifi.uio.no) with MHSnet; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 10:19:14 +1000 Subject: Re: More Thoughts. To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 10:18:57 EST From: Fred the Wonder Worm In-Reply-To: <199304281428.AAgyda.ifi.uio.no04679@gyda.ifi.uio.no>; from "Kjetil Torgrim Homme" at Apr 28, 93 4:28 pm X-Face: )\c`u_%V|7EQUDUt%5v'IJ?=@^Wf^<#,~CjzL`/2q0=-O6XW/Z8A2j.kgg:| 7|YZPSxy}rIuw8qD|/cQZ9^6kb:1XLleXhOl-U>(c~d`bC)%7FItZOUEw?=x%TBQ~NFJ,U|3wi[jzXd5-bMC Reply-To: ftww@crunchy.frog.cs.su.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL0] Status: RO G'day all! Just my $0.02 worth: > Regarding combat-messages: Count one vote in favour of a graphical > display. I know we have some good artists out there - nice bitmaps > keep trickling into the game. This would however be a large > undertaking. Perhaps you could have another box like the food/hp/sp boxes, except that it is usually blank, and when you hit something, it fills momentarily up to a point to indicate how much damage you did. e.g. +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ | | | | | | |###| | | | | | | |###| | | | | | | |###| | | | | | | |###| | | | | |###| |###| | | | | |###| |###| | | | | |###| |###| | | |###| |###| |###| +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ miss minor damage average maximum/lots The maximum could be determined in several ways: a) the hit points the monster still has left b) the maximum damage you are capable of doing at the moment c) some pre-chosen number a) would give you an idea of how damaged your opponent is. When you start doing more damage, you can tell your opponent is hurting. b) would give little information except possibly about the random number generator. c) would be a little like lpmud combat -- each level corresponds to how much damage you've done, without telling you how damaged your opponent is. Grazed <==> minor, hit <==> average, bone crunch <==> maximum > Regarding magic mapping: Please do not put in any features which make > it easier to play on a colour terminal only. Would it be possible to > use dithering instead of colour on monochrome displays? (We do have > colour terminals, but I'd rather not see them tied up by Crossfire > players. Gives us a bad name, see?) BSXclient used 16 pixmaps of various patterns to simulate colour on monochrome displays. You could use these as the foreground pixmap instead of the foreground pixel to draw the font in and get the desired effect. For people using the pixmaps option, you could just use these pixmaps directly. Thoughts/Flames/Discussion/Spinach? Cheers, Geoff. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Geoff Bailey (Fred the Wonder Worm) | Programmer by trade -- ftww@cs.su.oz.au | Gameplayer by vocation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 29 04:44:05 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 14:45:26 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 14:45:23 +0200 Received: from thyme.odu.edu (thyme.cs.odu.edu) by chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu (4.1/server2.4) id AA13571; Thu, 29 Apr 93 08:44:05 EDT Message-Id: <9304291244.AA13571@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 08:44:05 EDT From: Christopher Carpinello Received: by thyme.odu.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00377; Thu, 29 Apr 93 08:45:21 EDT To: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Even more thoughts. In-Reply-To: <9304270623.AA17181@am.ucsc.edu> References: <9304270623.AA17181@am.ucsc.edu> Content-Length: 406 Status: RO Mark Wedel writes: > Another interesting spell to add might be knock. Is basically > a destroy door spell (similiar to destroy earth wall spell). Range > should probably be more limited. Already implemented here (along with wizard lock). In the next day or so, I'll post what we are working on here. Development has been slow as of late, since projects are due and final exams started today. #chris From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 29 04:41:50 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 14:43:32 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 14:43:29 +0200 Received: from thyme.odu.edu (thyme.cs.odu.edu) by chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu (4.1/server2.4) id AA13553; Thu, 29 Apr 93 08:41:50 EDT Message-Id: <9304291241.AA13553@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 08:41:50 EDT From: Christopher Carpinello Received: by thyme.odu.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00376; Thu, 29 Apr 93 08:43:06 EDT To: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: More Thoughts. In-Reply-To: <9304260926.AA16559@am.ucsc.edu> References: <9304260926.AA16559@am.ucsc.edu> Content-Length: 434 Status: RO Mark Wedel writes: > Alchemy spell (Got it from Talisman game actually). Basically, you cast > this spell, and anything in the area is turned to gold. This means > that you don't have to haul 500 lbs of stuff back to town with you to > sell it. [description of spell deleted] I think if a spell like this is added, crossfire will become way too munchin-like. Half the fun of playing the game is collecting the treasure. #chris From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 29 04:33:59 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 14:35:27 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 14:35:24 +0200 Received: from thyme.odu.edu (thyme.cs.odu.edu) by chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu (4.1/server2.4) id AA13478; Thu, 29 Apr 93 08:33:59 EDT Message-Id: <9304291233.AA13478@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 08:33:59 EDT From: Christopher Carpinello Received: by thyme.odu.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00369; Thu, 29 Apr 93 08:35:15 EDT To: av5410@sjfc.edu (Alex Villamil) Cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Improvements...Purposes... In-Reply-To: <9304252330.AA12072@sjfc.edu> References: <9304252330.AA12072@sjfc.edu> Content-Length: 1887 Status: RO Alex Villamil writes: > Here are a couple of things I've ebeen thinking about. Criticism > welcome and encouraged. > > o Perhaps something that would increase the 'magic' > on weapons and armor. Kind of like the what the scroll of > enchant weapon does in nethack. Why? Well, Dragonslayer > is nice weapon to have, but I'd kind of like to > do more damage than +3(dam11). Or is this already implemented? I've implemented an enchant spell, but I don't know how well it will be received. Time will tell. Details to follow later. > o Let certain monsters follow you outside. Although tricky to implement, I agree. Monsters should be able to follow you outside of a map. > o Introduce the concept of luck. As a start, I've already implemented a luck spell and a luck sword. > Also, Crossfire needs a purpose. Right now, we pretty much just go > around killing monsters and getting things for no reason. It needs > some kind of ultimate goal. From other games: > > o Defeat some $BIG_BAD_GUY. (Many) > > o Defeat some $BIG_BAD_GUY and take back what he stole. (Nethack,others) > > o Try to save the town. (Many) > Try to save the world. > Try to save the universe. > Try to save the princess. (Too many) > > o Get the pieces of some magical thing together and destroy $BIG_BAD_GUY > with that thing. (Zelda, others) > > o Build armies and conquer the world or universe. (GB, others) > > o Defeat $BIG_BAD_GUY before he does something really bad to > $TOWN_WORLD_UNIVERSE_OR_PRINCESS (Sierra games) > > What do you all think? Are my expectations to high? > Someone please comment on this; the list hasn't been to active lately. Realistically, without it being a single player game, I would find the above goals for the game to be too out of reach. There are just too many "what if" scenerios you have to deal with in a multiplayer game. #chris From owner-crossfire Wed Apr 28 16:05:16 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 08:05:23 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cats.UCSC.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 08:05:21 +0200 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.UCSC.EDU with SMTP id AA16013; Wed, 28 Apr 93 23:05:18 -0700 Received: by am.ucsc.edu (5.65/4.7) id AA24588; Wed, 28 Apr 93 23:05:16 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 23:05:16 -0700 Message-Id: <9304290605.AA24588@am.ucsc.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Subject: Magic Mapping Status: RO Well, I've completed it so that it works nicely on color systems (It will be even nicer as more objects have a foreground color other thn black.) As for black/white systems: What makes things a little more difficult is the resolution each square for a magic map varies depending on how large the magic map area is. For example, if it is a very large map, each square may be 4x4 or 6x6. But if it is a small area, each square may be 24x24. If the square is small, dithering may be quite difficult. Various thoughts: The magic mapping routine (as I have done it), does know the difference between walls and floors and the other objects. So, if the object is a wall, put a solid block there. If the object is a floor, don't put anything, and if the object is an item, perhaps a simple dither? Still not as good as color, but better than before.. Mark Wedel master@cats.ucsc.edu From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 29 10:02:00 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 08:02:02 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from dyggve.ifi.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 08:02:01 +0200 From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme Received: by dyggve.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 08:02:00 +0200 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 08:02:00 +0200 Message-Id: <199304290602.AAdyggve.ifi.uio.no20780@dyggve.ifi.uio.no> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no In-Reply-To: "Eric A. Anderson"'s message of Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: More Thoughts. Status: RO Eric Anderson > Well, I don't disallow solo-playing, indeed, I don't see how you > could. Given that you'd never be able to get two people on to start > having multiple players. Most people seem to like my setup, the main > complaint would be that the server crashes too often and they can't > "backup" their player files to keep this from happening. (Not that I > think anyone would "backup" their files against death or anything like > that.) Obviously, this depends on your definition of solo-playing :-) What I meant, was: Around here, it's not uncommon that we have 3-4 servers running at once, since each player start their own. Maybe I've misunderstood, but I don't think they can do that in your setup, they can only connect to the one server. So, if there are anyone else playing, you'll bump into them if you like it or no. Anyway, this gives most impact because players can't reset the server, ie. clean out a nice easy level, quit, go back and do it once more. With a single server, you force people to explore more. BTw, does the server sleep when there are no players on? The map-resetting is done by timestamps, and I can't think of anything else that would need attention with no players on. Kjetil T. From owner-crossfire Wed Apr 28 14:09:12 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 00:09:47 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from PO2.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 00:09:44 +0200 Received: by po2.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for crossfire@ifi.uio.no; Wed, 28 Apr 93 18:09:39 EDT Received: via switchmail; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:09:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Eric A. Anderson" To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: More Thoughts. In-Reply-To: <199304281428.AAgyda.ifi.uio.no04679@gyda.ifi.uio.no> References: <199304281428.AAgyda.ifi.uio.no04679@gyda.ifi.uio.no> Status: RO Kjetil Torgrim Homme writes: > I guess the best solution to this is to set up a crossfire server and > disallow solo-playing. How do your players feel about your setup, > Eric? Well, I don't disallow solo-playing, indeed, I don't see how you could. Given that you'd never be able to get two people on to start having multiple players. Most people seem to like my setup, the main complaint would be that the server crashes too often and they can't "backup" their player files to keep this from happening. (Not that I think anyone would "backup" their files against death or anything like that.) -- On the bugs, I just realized that we had access to purify until april 30th, I'm going to purify the crossfire binary and watch it die painfully for a while. -Eric ********************************************************* "It seemed like a good idea at the time" -The Mad Hatter "Yes, you're very smart. Shut up." -In "The Princess Bride" ********************************************************* From owner-crossfire Wed Apr 28 21:05:59 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 19:10:57 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from pat.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 19:10:55 +0200 X400-Received: by mta pat.uio.no in /PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/; Relayed; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 19:10:45 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; Relayed; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 19:10:07 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 19:09:24 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 19:05:59 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 19:05:59 +0200 X400-Originator: asg@cs.st-andrews.ac.uk X400-Recipients: crossfire@ifi.uio.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<7996.9304281705@macallan.cs.st-] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: (l)b(r)(l)b(r)(l From: Goudge Austin S R Message-Id: <7996.9304281705@macallan.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: !!!!!!!!! Status: RO This game is going to make me fail my finals !!!! STOP MAKING IT BETTER ! (just kidding) From owner-crossfire Wed Apr 28 20:08:47 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:08:51 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:08:49 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA22195; Wed, 28 Apr 93 18:08:47 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 18:08:47 +0200 From: Petri Heinil{ Message-Id: <9304281608.AA22195@cc.lut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: More Thoughts. Status: RO >From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme > ... >Regarding crossedit: Petri, I'm glad to hear you'll add cut/paste. I >truly love your editor :-) One thing, though - I want more actions to >put in translations in X resources. Specifically, I'd like to add a >keyboard shortcut to Enter map. Would that be hard to add? (in fact, >it would be nice with actions for every menu item) These actions are called accelerations in X toolkit and they are somewhat supported. As soon as I have studied the use of accelerations, I add them. The functionality will be somewhat same as in bitmap-editor of X ( because I will take a lot of examples from bitmap :) ). //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // Petri Heinila // email: Petri.Heinila@lut.fi // // // mail: Ainonkatu 2A // // // 53100 Lappeenranta // // // Finland, Europe // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From owner-crossfire Wed Apr 28 18:28:57 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 16:28:59 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from gyda.ifi.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 16:28:58 +0200 From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme Received: by gyda.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 16:28:57 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 16:28:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199304281428.AAgyda.ifi.uio.no04679@gyda.ifi.uio.no> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no In-Reply-To: Mark Wedel's message of Mon, 26 Apr 93 02:26:32 -0700 <9304260926.AA16559@am.ucsc.edu> Subject: Re: More Thoughts. Status: RO I don't mind the idea of an alchemy spell. I do think you should get *some* gold out of organics, though. I guess this would be a popular spell to use on plate mail +3's and ring mails ditto. I think this spell should have very low cost, maybe even 0 sp. Of course, you could put in a fail chance so you get a lot of lead nuggets instead 5% of the time :-) (just enough so you can be unlucky and have a story to tell your Crossfire-addicted friends) Regarding single-player Crossfire: I find it a little regressive. Like others said, if you want single-player, there's always Ultima, Dungeon Master, Nethack etc. etc. (but I see your point about user- configurability). Nothing can stop you from making one though, that's the beauty of the GPL :-) Regarding random monsters: Maybe what's needed is invisible, indestructable and non-blocking generators. Mmm, and perhaps they shouldn't generate when there are players within range. / outer range - inner - outer range \ | / \ | | Player | Generator | | | \ / | Ie. if the player is outside the outer range or inside the inner range, the generator won't generate. Regarding tiles: Great portions of the game engine must be redesigned. Do we have a volunteer? :-) It would be good if the game didn't "swap" out on a map-basis, but had some internal swap handling on object level. Unless the swap file is going to be huge (ie. the objects are written raw to disc), this will be tricky. Regarding combat-messages: Count one vote in favour of a graphical display. I know we have some good artists out there - nice bitmaps keep trickling into the game. This would however be a large undertaking. Frank: > Goudge Austin wrote: > > I think that the main attraction of Crossfire (to me) is the multiplayer > > facility. > Indeed! Too bad so few are utilizing this... I guess the best solution to this is to set up a crossfire server and disallow solo-playing. How do your players feel about your setup, Eric? Regarding the spell "knock": Yes! A very useful spell. Hmm, perhaps we should have a "lockpick" with "slay door" for the poor warriors? :-) Regarding magic mapping: Please do not put in any features which make it easier to play on a colour terminal only. Would it be possible to use dithering instead of colour on monochrome displays? (We do have colour terminals, but I'd rather not see them tied up by Crossfire players. Gives us a bad name, see?) Regarding crossedit: Petri, I'm glad to hear you'll add cut/paste. I truly love your editor :-) One thing, though - I want more actions to put in translations in X resources. Specifically, I'd like to add a keyboard shortcut to Enter map. Would that be hard to add? (in fact, it would be nice with actions for every menu item) Kjetil T. From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 29 04:06:35 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 10:07:12 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (aaii_slip.aaii.oz.AU) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 10:06:57 +0200 Received: by yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (5.65c/SMI-4.0/AAII) id AA27885; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:06:35 +1000 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:06:35 +1000 From: Rupert G. Goldie Message-Id: <199304280806.AA27885@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: More Thoughts. Status: RO > > Alchemy: Sure, hauling it back to town may be realistic, but with > word of recall (or even dimensions door), distance becomes much less > a factor. Also, in many cases, all that distance does is add > time (random monsters don';t exist, and you can kill all the monsters > before you get to your destination. Although, depending on the map > reset time, this may vary..) > It is sort of possible to have random monsters through some devious map-making. What I have done in some of my new maps is put some generators in some unaccessible rooms containing one way teleporters. As monsters generate, they wander into a teleport and appear somewhere on the map. As there is no way to get at the generators, monsters can always repopulate the map. If you do this it is very important that you reduce the speed of the generators, otherwise the map is flooded with monsters. (This technique is really just to provide some challenge or surprise on the way back out, not to overwhelm to players). Another way is to have some monsters behind gates which are opened near the end of the map (sort of like the bakery) Rupert From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 27 16:21:05 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 14:21:49 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 14:21:42 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA26982; Tue, 27 Apr 93 14:21:05 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 14:21:05 +0200 From: Petri Heinil{ Message-Id: <9304271221.AA26982@cc.lut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: More Thoughts. Status: RO >From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) > Alchemy: Sure, hauling it back to town may be realistic, but with >word of recall (or even dimensions door), distance becomes much less >a factor. Also, in many cases, all that distance does is add >time (random monsters don';t exist, and you can kill all the monsters >before you get to your destination. Although, depending on the map >reset time, this may vary..) > > Also, even with alchmey spell, it would still be cost effective to >haul the items back to town than to alchemy them, because value after >alchemy will always be less than what you could sell them for. What I see in alchemey good is, that you can clean up a large area easy. ( with alchemy metals, with burning_hands others ). This is convient, when fightning against ice-spelling monsters. > Scale: The 'problem' is that you are just as large outside as you >are in a dungeon. Cast a large fireball, and have the mountain range >is covered. Likewise, in some cases, the distance between shops inside >the town is more than the distance between the towns themselves.. Well, this is not very big 'problem', because there is rarely need to cast spells in outdoors, I think. > As for combat: To outside people, a combat symbol could perhaps be made. >IF they try to move to where that symbol is, they also become part >of the combat. > > Tiling: The advantage this has over one large map is you have >separate maps, so a person could design a part of a continent, for example, >and instead of merging it into the present continent (which there really >isn't a way to do so right now), you just add these maps to the CrossEdit has ability to cut,copy & paste in next release. So with these you can insert parts of maps to others. >existing one, modify the border ones a little so they link up, and >your set. (I suppose you can do that right now.) However, I think >it would look nicer that as you reach the edge of one map, instead of >seeing blackness, you see the edge of the map your moving to. Personally I feel no need of tiling in design maps. Tiling would be nice, but it is not nesessary. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // Petri Heinila // email: Petri.Heinila@lut.fi // // // mail: Ainonkatu 2A // // // 53100 Lappeenranta // // // Finland, Europe // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 26 20:36:11 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 12:36:20 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cats.UCSC.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 12:36:16 +0200 Received: from si.UCSC.EDU by cats.UCSC.EDU with SMTP id AA05833; Tue, 27 Apr 93 03:36:12 -0700 Received: by si.ucsc.edu (5.65/4.7) id AA09921; Tue, 27 Apr 93 03:36:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 03:36:11 -0700 Message-Id: <9304271036.AA09921@si.ucsc.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Subject: Re: More Thoughts. Status: RO Alchemy: Sure, hauling it back to town may be realistic, but with word of recall (or even dimensions door), distance becomes much less a factor. Also, in many cases, all that distance does is add time (random monsters don';t exist, and you can kill all the monsters before you get to your destination. Although, depending on the map reset time, this may vary..) Also, even with alchmey spell, it would still be cost effective to haul the items back to town than to alchemy them, because value after alchemy will always be less than what you could sell them for. Scale: The 'problem' is that you are just as large outside as you are in a dungeon. Cast a large fireball, and have the mountain range is covered. Likewise, in some cases, the distance between shops inside the town is more than the distance between the towns themselves.. As for combat: To outside people, a combat symbol could perhaps be made. IF they try to move to where that symbol is, they also become part of the combat. Tiling: The advantage this has over one large map is you have separate maps, so a person could design a part of a continent, for example, and instead of merging it into the present continent (which there really isn't a way to do so right now), you just add these maps to the existing one, modify the border ones a little so they link up, and your set. (I suppose you can do that right now.) However, I think it would look nicer that as you reach the edge of one map, instead of seeing blackness, you see the edge of the map your moving to. Mark Wedel master@cats.ucsc.edu From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 26 16:23:29 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 08:23:37 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cats.UCSC.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 08:23:34 +0200 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.UCSC.EDU with SMTP id AA02462; Mon, 26 Apr 93 23:23:30 -0700 Received: by am.ucsc.edu (5.65/4.7) id AA17181; Mon, 26 Apr 93 23:23:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 93 23:23:29 -0700 Message-Id: <9304270623.AA17181@am.ucsc.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Subject: Even more thoughts. Status: RO Another interesting spell to add might be knock. Is basically a destroy door spell (similiar to destroy earth wall spell). Range should probably be more limited. Alchmey spell: Turning it to gold coins does not make a lot of sense. However, I don't know if having gold items would be a good solution (would add a lot of items to the inventory and perhaps the archetype file.) Perhaps have them turn into gold nuggets, which you then sell in shops similiar to diamonds and other gems. However, as I see it, the spell has to come at least reasonably close to actual value of the items, or the spell becomes useless, and people will continue to carry the items back to town to sell them. How about this for a way to work it: The amount of nuggets you get is based upon how much the item weighs, but the total value can never be greater than the actual worth of the item. The magic value of the item has no influence on the amount of nuggets (except to influence the total amount you could get from heavy items.) This would make it so that you can't go to the shops and buy all the heavy items and make a profit. Yet, at the same time, the amount you get is based upon the weight of the item (which makes more sense.) Also, a non-linear scale for nuggets recieved from the weight might be good (ie, 1 kg item = 1 nugget, 3 kg=2, 5kg=3, 7kg=4, 10kg=5, 15kg=6, 25kg=7, 35kg=8, 50kg=9, 75kg=10, ...) At least this way, light items would get closer to their actual value. Since Frank asked what various people were working on, I might as well put it here. I'm working on making the magic mapping spell actually useful. Basically, what I've done is made it so that the magic map colors represent the color of the items on the map (for example, an area of water will appear blue, a ruby will be a red area, etc..) It's actually works pretty well. I need to try and get it so walls are displayed properly. This gets a little more complicated because the yellow walls (which are used a lot), have yellow as the background and not the foreground. So its trying to find a method to display walls decently, yet have items displayed correctly.) Unfortunately, if your on a black/white system, you porbably won't see any improvement. Mark Wedel master@cats.ucsc.edu From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 26 09:40:57 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 01:42:38 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from halcyon.com by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 01:42:33 +0200 Received: by halcyon.com id AA27066 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for frankj@ifi.uio.no); Mon, 26 Apr 1993 16:40:57 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 16:40:57 -0700 From: Jonathan Roy Message-Id: <199304262340.AA27066@halcyon.com> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, frankj@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: screwy Status: RO What does a ring of adornment do, and why are some items which are identical sometimes cost 2x as much? From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 26 09:37:34 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 01:39:13 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from halcyon.com by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 01:39:09 +0200 Received: by halcyon.com id AA26984 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no); Mon, 26 Apr 1993 16:37:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 16:37:34 -0700 From: Jonathan Roy Message-Id: <199304262337.AA26984@halcyon.com> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, master@cats.UCSC.EDU Subject: Re: Last message. Status: RO Hmm... Your "last message" got sent out 4 times. :) From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 26 14:33:28 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 11:17:51 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from PO5.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 11:17:48 +0200 Received: by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for crossfire@ifi.uio.no; Tue, 27 Apr 93 05:17:44 EDT Received: via switchmail; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 05:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 05:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 18:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 18:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 18:33:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Eric A. Anderson" To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: More Thoughts. In-Reply-To: <9304260926.AA16559@am.ucsc.edu> References: <9304260926.AA16559@am.ucsc.edu> Status: RO master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) writes: > Alchemy spell (Got it from Talisman game actually). Basically, you cast > this spell, and anything in the area is turned to gold. This means > that you don't have to haul 500 lbs of stuff back to town with you to > sell it. I think it is reasonable to have to haul it back to town. That's part of reality, moreover, it means that if you have stuff a long way away from the towns it's harder to get it back. > Scale: Perhaps different scale for different maps. For example, must > dungeons and towns would be scale 1 (no change.) However, outdoors (outside > of towns), the scale might be something different. Then, when you meet > something, the game loads an encounter map for that terrain, and > you are placed on it (like (at least) some of the Ultimas did.) As such > one monster image on the outside map may actually be half a dozen. > Likewise, if the party wishes, they can be grouped into one image > to move with. Ultima 4/5 did this, when you entered into a map it zoomed in, -- or at least it acted as though it did. Indeed, crossfire pretty much has this already since the way of getting into a town is the same as Ultima 4/5. Ultima 6 went to a single size and I thought that was a mistake. I'm not convinced that you want to zoom in on combats, mainly because I'm not sure about what it should look like to other people walking around. [outside maps with tiling] It's not clear why not just making a large map would not be sufficient for this purpose. Can you elaborate? [single vs multiple player] I personally would prefer that it stay multiple player. This is because when a game is single person only, it takes more work to make it interesting. Hopefully as crossfire matures, more people will play it and so you will get more interactions with many people. Even better would be a way for people to compete with each other. This would keep the game interesting, because people learn whereas monsters generally don't. -Eric ********************************************************* "It seemed like a good idea at the time" -The Mad Hatter "Yes, you're very smart. Shut up." -In "The Princess Bride" ********************************************************* From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 26 14:24:39 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 11:16:46 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from ANDREW.CMU.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 11:16:41 +0200 Received: by andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for crossfire@ifi.uio.no; Tue, 27 Apr 93 05:16:29 EDT Received: via switchmail; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 05:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 27 Apr 1993 05:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 18:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 18:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 18:24:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Eric A. Anderson" To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Improvements...Purposes... In-Reply-To: <9304252330.AA12072@sjfc.edu> References: <9304252330.AA12072@sjfc.edu> Status: RO av5410@sjfc.edu (Alex Villamil) writes: > o Perhaps something that would increase the 'magic' > on weapons and armor. Kind of like the what the scroll of > enchant weapon does in nethack. Why? Well, Dragonslayer > is nice weapon to have, but I'd kind of like to > do more damage than +3(dam11). Or is this already implemented? I put this in a while ago, but Frank didn't like it so removed it, and most of it seems to have gone away. I limited it to not being able to do improvements to originally magic items, the idea was that you would build up an item by making sacrifices and all, at least in the most cool version you could improve damage, speed, and bonuses. I was going to put in stuff to let you get protections etc. by sacrificing appropriate body parts of monsters, but never bothered to. It's hard to tell if it unbalances the game. > o Introduce the concept of luck. This is actually in there, there is a weapon which can make you lucky, gram I believe is what it's called. > Also, Crossfire needs a purpose. Right now, we pretty much just go > around killing monsters and getting things for no reason. It needs > some kind of ultimate goal. From other games: I agree, but I think you should have a bunch of quests that you can do, each of them can be linked to a certain set of maps, the th set of maps are a very good move in this direction. I wish other people would do this, but it is more work to make the cool maps with problems other than just killing monsters. -Eric ********************************************************* "It seemed like a good idea at the time" -The Mad Hatter "Yes, you're very smart. Shut up." -In "The Princess Bride" ********************************************************* From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 26 17:57:46 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 15:57:49 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from mimir.ifi.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 15:57:48 +0200 From: Frank Tore Johansen Received: by mimir.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 15:57:47 +0200 Message-Id: <199304261357.AAmimir.ifi.uio.no01924@mimir.ifi.uio.no> Subject: Re: screwy To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 15:57:46 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <12361.9304261159@farclas.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk> from "Goudge Austin S R" at Apr 26, 93 01:59:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 5864 Status: RO Goudge Austin wrote: > There's something seriously screwy with this mailing list !!! > > (I expect I'll get this back three times as well !) Indeed...I didn't dare to write about it until it was fixed though. I'm really sorry to have, for the second time, filled your mailing boxes with these repeated messages...As I mentioned a week ago, it was a sendmail problem. I've flamed the local administration, but they don't have the time to fix the problem right now. As a temporary solution I've removed what caused it, the sites with broken sendmail from the mailing-list. There should be no more echoes now. While I'm mailing, I'll give a little update on what has been done. I've written some documentation (gasp!) for those who are working with the source. Some work has been done in converting the maps to the new standard, but no "quality control" has been done yet. In other words, those who have converted their own areas have generally converted it all, without throwing out, or working on, the older maps. I've received various patches, and all have been included...You can change the game quite a lot by fiddling around with the various defines in include/config.h I haven't had time to actually play the game, thus I haven't hunted down any of the various bugs which are known to crash the game... Considering the number of patches I've received, this is sorely needed before I release another version. I'd also like to hear from those who I know are working on Crossfire, but haven't received anything from, to avoid having several people workin the same features... Now, over to some points from the few three letters... Alex Villamil wrote: > o Perhaps something that would increase the 'magic' > on weapons and armor. Kind of like the what the scroll of > enchant weapon does in nethack. Why? Well, Dragonslayer > is nice weapon to have, but I'd kind of like to > do more damage than +3(dam11). Or is this already implemented? No, it isn't implemented, but it will be, with a certain chance of failure which destroys the item. The price and availability of such a scroll will have to be thought through, since it will heavily affect the balance of the game. > o Have info on monster attacks. Decsribe what they're doing > while creaming you to pieces. Yes, the current sustem is horrible. But we can't have output like some muds ("The goblin charges screaming into the melee, swinging his battleaxe at your head, but you deflect his blow on your shield."). It's just too verbose, considering the speed of the game. The ideal would be to find a graphical way of displaying damage in amount and type (physical/fire), since this is the only way for the player to be able to parse all the output from the game. > o Cloak of Displacement. Monsters attack image a few squares away. I've actually thought about this, and now know how to implment it efficiently...consider it done 8) > o Have pets be able to *learn* spells just by picking up books. Intelligent pets do this...as far as I know. Remember that only some monsters are able to cast spells from books. This includes most intelligent humanoid monsters, and som others. > o Let certain monsters follow you outside. This is actually very difficult to implement efficiently. But it is possible, now that I've made a timeout for when the map will be saved after you leave it (typically 10 seconds). > o Introduce the concept of luck. It has been implemented a long time 8) But there is only one item which affects your luck as of now... > o Ring of Conflict (Nethack). Monsters attack eachother if player > enters room wearing this. This is _the_ most powerful item in Nethack, and it will have to be tuned down considerably before being introduced to Crossfire. For instance, it only affects monsters within a certain radius of the wearer, and a successful saving-throw negates the effect. > Also, Crossfire needs a purpose. Right now, we pretty much just go > around killing monsters and getting things for no reason. It needs > some kind of ultimate goal. From other games: This is a map problem. Crossfire already have the ability to make quite complex "quests", with quest-iitems, with story, with... you name it. The new editor is a terrific aide, all that is lacking is some more documentation on how to make good maps, and how to use all the different features in Crossfire. Mark Wedel wrote (slightly edited): > Alchemy spell (Got it from Talisman game actually). Basically, you cast > this spell, and anything in the area is turned to gold. Hmm...it's unlogical that it would create coins, and it should only work on metals... Be careful with the economy of the game, it's very frail, and easy to abuse 8) > Scale: Perhaps different scale for different maps. For example, must > dungeons and towns would be scale 1 (no change.) However, outdoors (outside > of towns), the scale might be something different. Then, when you meet > something, the game loads an encounter map for that terrain, and > you are placed on it (like (at least) some of the Ultimas did.) I've thought about it, but it won't happen anytime soon... But it would definitely add to the feeling of distance, which, imho, is a good thing. > [About joining several maps, and load the neighbouring map when > approaching the edge] This is a big can of worms. It is possible to implement it, but it requires lots of code, and lots of rewriting to old code... Not to mention cpu... The way to implement this would be to make it transparent for the map, ie everything works as if it was _one_ big map, and insert_ob_in_map() would have to check if any neighbouring maps will have to be loaded... Goudge Austin wrote: > I think that the main attraction of Crossfire (to me) is the multiplayer > facility. Indeed! Too bad so few are utilizing this... -Frank. From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 26 15:59:38 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 14:04:19 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from pat.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 14:04:16 +0200 X400-Received: by mta pat.uio.no in /PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 14:03:56 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 14:03:20 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 14:02:36 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 13:59:38 +0200 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 13:59:38 +0200 X400-Originator: asg@cs.st-andrews.ac.uk X400-Recipients: crossfire@ifi.uio.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<12361.9304261159@farclas.cs.st-] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: screwy From: Goudge Austin S R Message-Id: <12361.9304261159@farclas.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: screwy Status: RO There's something seriously screwy with this mailing list !!! (I expect I'll get this back three times as well !) Aussi. From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 26 15:04:27 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 13:09:34 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from pat.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 13:09:32 +0200 X400-Received: by mta pat.uio.no in /PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 13:09:18 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 13:08:22 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 13:07:38 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 13:04:27 +0200 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 13:04:27 +0200 X400-Originator: asg@cs.st-andrews.ac.uk X400-Recipients: crossfire@ifi.uio.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<27803.9304261104@strathisla.cs.] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Ideas From: Goudge Austin S R Message-Id: <27803.9304261104@strathisla.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Ideas Status: RO Just a few thoughts on a couple of recent messages... > Scale: Perhaps different scale for different maps. For example, must > dungeons and towns would be scale 1 (no change.) However, outdoors (outside > of towns), the scale might be something different. Then, when you meet > something, the game loads an encounter map for that terrain, and > you are placed on it (like (at least) some of the Ultimas did.) As such > one monster image on the outside map may actually be half a dozen. > Likewise, if the party wishes, they can be grouped into one image > to move with. Do you have ESP ? This message arrived just as I was composing one saying almost exactly the same thing !! > Ooutside maps: Having them be the same side (I know, boo hiss), and > have automatic overlapping would be need. For example, outside > maps are 24x24 (lets say). AS you get near the edge of one, it loads > the adjacant map, and you can travel onto it just by stepping > on over there (if you are at 5,0 and move north, you then are > at 5,23 on the other map.) Only maps that want to be part of > the tiling need to be so constricted. Also, some additional information > would need to be added to the map file (something like north_map: (map1) > east_map: (map2), west_map: none, ...) Where these > represent what map it borders along that edge. It's a good idea, but I think the implementation would be tricky. The major development would be allowing monsters to travel between the maps. I would imagine this would involve a dramatic increase in memory useage. > ...what crossfire is and where it is heading. Here are some key > differences between games: > Mine would strictly be single user. > Mine would have a party of adventureres controlled by 1 person. > Monster workings would probably be different (have random, but probably > no generators.) > Some items would be different. > I think there were some others, but its been a long day for me. > I really don't know why I am saying this here. Maybe to get some > thoughts? Do people think that crossfire can work equally well as both > multiplayer and single user games? No I think that the main attraction of Crossfire (to me) is the multiplayer facility. If a single-player game were to be developed, it would need to be quite different, to make up for the loss. I believe that much more time would need to be devoted to good graphical appeal, similar to some of the more recent Graphical Adventure games available on the PC. (I forget the name of the company, is it Strategic Simulations ?). Even so, I would probably stick to PC's for that sort of game, and Crossfire for Multiplayer. After all, it's a great game !! Austin Goudge. asg@st-and.ac.uk From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 25 19:30:47 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 11:30:54 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cats.UCSC.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 11:30:51 +0200 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.UCSC.EDU with SMTP id AA13906; Mon, 26 Apr 93 02:30:48 -0700 Received: by am.ucsc.edu (5.65/4.7) id AA16773; Mon, 26 Apr 93 02:30:47 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 93 02:30:47 -0700 Message-Id: <9304260930.AA16773@am.ucsc.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Subject: Last message. Status: RO Sorry, but a few of those points built on points I responded to in the message from Alex Villamil. Unfortunately, I sent it to him, and not the list, and forgot to keep a copy for myself. Hopefully, he'll send me a copy of it soon so I can re-post it. --MArk From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 25 19:26:32 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 11:26:48 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cats.UCSC.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 11:26:41 +0200 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.UCSC.EDU with SMTP id AA13822; Mon, 26 Apr 93 02:26:33 -0700 Received: by am.ucsc.edu (5.65/4.7) id AA16559; Mon, 26 Apr 93 02:26:32 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 93 02:26:32 -0700 Message-Id: <9304260926.AA16559@am.ucsc.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Subject: More Thoughts. Status: RO A few thigns I have though of. Alchemy spell (Got it from Talisman game actually). Basically, you cast this spell, and anything in the area is turned to gold. This means that you don't have to haul 500 lbs of stuff back to town with you to sell it. IT could either work by how much the item weights (100 kg thing turns into more gold than 5 kg thing, for example), or by actual value of the item. The later seems better, because otherwise, you alchemey all the light (heavy) stuff, and carry the light stuff to town. Obviously, the amount of gold you get should be a little less than you could get for selling it in town (some sacrifice.) Or perhaps each item has a chance of not be turned into gold, but instead vanishing (Which means alcheming a 3,000 gp item could be risk, because it might just disappear.) Scale: Perhaps different scale for different maps. For example, must dungeons and towns would be scale 1 (no change.) However, outdoors (outside of towns), the scale might be something different. Then, when you meet something, the game loads an encounter map for that terrain, and you are placed on it (like (at least) some of the Ultimas did.) As such one monster image on the outside map may actually be half a dozen. Likewise, if the party wishes, they can be grouped into one image to move with. Ooutside maps: Having them be the same side (I know, boo hiss), and have automatic overlapping would be need. For example, outside maps are 24x24 (lets say). AS you get near the edge of one, it loads the adjacant map, and you can travel onto it just by stepping on over there (if you are at 5,0 and move north, you then are at 5,23 on the other map.) Only maps that want to be part of the tiling need to be so constricted. Also, some additional information would need to be added to the map file (something like north_map: (map1) east_map: (map2), west_map: none, ...) Where these represent what map it borders along that edge. Also, with invisible tiling, require sized maps are not quite so bad, as you can just glue several small maps together to make your bigger map. IF you don't need the space of the large map, you could just add forest to the areas you don't need or whatever. Only disadvantge would be that generates on separate maps probably would not be active (like the would be on 1 large map.) Also, you are at a map corner, that means that 3 more maps would need to be loaded, taking some memory. Multiplayer & single player: Unfortunately, there are some great differences in this. For example, if you have a 2 wide corrider, it is much easier to advance and kill things so nothing gets behind you compared to if you are a single person. There is no solution to this problem that I see of, save separate versions, which brings me two: I've thought about forking off and starting a single player versions (it would be more of an ultima clone.) I would probably try and implement many of the ideas above.) One of the things that first got me interested in crossfire was I was interested in writing an ultima type clone. I heard about crossfire, got it, and saw taht it had a lot of the ideas I was thinking about (users being add to add maps, plus graphical interface...) I personally think Crossfire is a great game, and will become greater. However, each person has various ideas of how things should be, and there are enough major difference between what I envisioned for my game and what crossfire is and where it is heading. Here are some key differences between games: Mine would strictly be single user. Mine would have a party of adventureres controlled by 1 person. Monster workings would probably be different (have random, but probably no generators.) Some items would be different. I think there were some others, but its been a long day for me. I really don't know why I am saying this here. Maybe to get some thoughts? Do people think that crossfire can work equally well as both multiplayer and single user games? I think some of this also comes down to each person having differing views of how things should work. (The group I play AD&D with has been togethere for quite a while, and various people DM from time to time. Yet each person has their own set of unique rules on various portions.) Also, jsut to be clear, this is in no way a complaint against Crossfire or its developers. I think it is a great game, and will continue to do so probably no matter what happens. I have, in fact, submitted several improvements and bug fixes, and will continue to do so. However, at times, I wonder if there is not space in the world for 2 such games. I also think the developers of the game are doing a great job also. Mark Wedel master@cats.ucsc.edu From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 25 15:30:35 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id for crossfire.alias; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 01:34:39 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from sjfc.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1993 01:34:26 +0200 From: av5410@sjfc.edu (Alex Villamil) Received: by sjfc.edu (5.61/3.1.090690-St. John Fisher College) id AA12072; Sun, 25 Apr 93 19:30:38 -0400 Message-Id: <9304252330.AA12072@sjfc.edu> Subject: Improvements...Purposes... To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 19:30:35 EDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: RO Here are a couple of things I've ebeen thinking about. Criticism welcome and encouraged. These are a just a bunch of goodies, a wish list for 1.0: o Perhaps something that would increase the 'magic' on weapons and armor. Kind of like the what the scroll of enchant weapon does in nethack. Why? Well, Dragonslayer is nice weapon to have, but I'd kind of like to do more damage than +3(dam11). Or is this already implemented? o Have info on monster attacks. Decsribe what they're doing while creaming you to pieces. o Cloak of Displacement. Monsters attack image a few squares away. o Have pets be able to *learn* spells just by picking up books. o Let certain monsters follow you outside. o Introduce the concept of luck. o Ring of Conflict (Nethack). Monsters attack eachother if player enters room wearing this. Also, Crossfire needs a purpose. Right now, we pretty much just go around killing monsters and getting things for no reason. It needs some kind of ultimate goal. From other games: o Defeat some $BIG_BAD_GUY. (Many) o Defeat some $BIG_BAD_GUY and take back what he stole. (Nethack,others) o Try to save the town. (Many) Try to save the world. Try to save the universe. Try to save the princess. (Too many) o Get the pieces of some magical thing together and destroy $BIG_BAD_GUY with that thing. (Zelda, others) o Build armies and conquer the world or universe. (GB, others) o Defeat $BIG_BAD_GUY before he does something really bad to $TOWN_WORLD_UNIVERSE_OR_PRINCESS (Sierra games) What do you all think? Are my expectations to high? Someone please comment on this; the list hasn't been to active lately. Alex --------------------------------------------------------- |Alex Villamil St. John Fisher | |av5410@sjfc.edu College | |av5410@sunlab1.sjfc.edu Rochester, New York | --------------------------------------------------------- From frankj Mon Apr 19 02:46:02 1993 Subject: Re: REpeating.. To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 02:46:02 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199304190042.AA16329@halcyon.com> from "Jonathan Roy" at Apr 18, 93 05:42:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 265 Status: RO > The last posts by frankj and Petri.Heinila showed up here > about 4-5 times each... ?? It was a bug caused by a "smtp-misunderstanding" when sendmail at ifi.uio.no communicated with lancelot.st.nepean.uws.edu.au... I really hope it is fixed now... 8) -Frank. From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 18 10:42:31 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 19 Apr 1993 02:43:07 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from halcyon.com by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 19 Apr 1993 02:43:03 +0200 Received: by halcyon.com id AA16329 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no); Sun, 18 Apr 1993 17:42:31 -0700 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 17:42:31 -0700 From: Jonathan Roy Message-Id: <199304190042.AA16329@halcyon.com> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: REpeating.. Status: RO The last posts by frankj and Petri.Heinila showed up here about 4-5 times each... ?? F F Jonathan Roy, of the Free Access Foundation Email: ninja@faf.org A Mail faf@halcyon.com for information, or FTP to halcyon.com: /pub/faf/ F F Vorlons, of the Galactic Bloodshed Development Team GEnie: J.ROY18 "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - _RotJ_ From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 18 13:31:01 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 19 Apr 1993 10:38:10 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 19 Apr 1993 10:38:06 +0200 Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST.UU.NET) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA25998; Mon, 19 Apr 93 04:38:10 -0400 Received: from eckserver.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 043621.28033; Mon, 19 Apr 1993 04:36:21 EDT Received: by eckserver.eckerd.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1:jhs102892) id AA15660; Sun, 18 Apr 93 17:31:01 EDT Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 17:31:01 EDT From: roy@eckerd.edu (Jonathan Roy) Message-Id: <9304182131.AA15660@eckserver.eckerd.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Death and swamp.. Status: RO The patch to take off 20% exp doesn't seem to work with dying in a swamp... It just locks up. From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 19 00:29:05 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 18 Apr 1993 22:29:08 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from surt.ifi.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 18 Apr 1993 22:29:06 +0200 From: Frank Tore Johansen Received: by surt.ifi.uio.no ; Sun, 18 Apr 1993 22:29:05 +0200 Message-Id: <199304182029.AAsurt.ifi.uio.no23852@surt.ifi.uio.no> Subject: Re: Map-package: ph_maps.1.3.tar.Z - info To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 22:29:05 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9304182021.AA11145@cc.lut.fi> from "Petri Heinil{" at Apr 18, 93 10:21:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 757 Status: RO > There have appear ambiquity of my last map release ph_maps.1.3.tar.Z. > People have asked missing mapindex-file to join maps to CrossFire. > > There is NO mapindex file, because this some kind of pre-release of > maps using filepaths. Filepaths are modification to CrossFire to use > direct file names. ( as I know, system using filepaths exists at moment, > here at lut, and in ifi ). And anyone who wants to convert their maps to the new format can contact me so they can receive a pre-release of crossfire. The next release won't happen in a while, though, since I haven't had much time to work on it lately. For playing, you're still probably better of with 0.89.2. By the way, are there any volunteers for a map-quality-control board? 8) -Frank. From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 19 00:21:54 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 18 Apr 1993 22:21:57 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 18 Apr 1993 22:21:55 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA11145; Sun, 18 Apr 93 22:21:54 +0200 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 22:21:54 +0200 From: Petri Heinil{ Message-Id: <9304182021.AA11145@cc.lut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Map-package: ph_maps.1.3.tar.Z - info Status: RO There have appear ambiquity of my last map release ph_maps.1.3.tar.Z. People have asked missing mapindex-file to join maps to CrossFire. There is NO mapindex file, because this some kind of pre-release of maps using filepaths. Filepaths are modification to CrossFire to use direct file names. ( as I know, system using filepaths exists at moment, here at lut, and in ifi ). The next release of CrossFire should include ( as I known ) filepaths and so ability to play these maps. Sorry about messing documentation. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // Petri Heinila // email: Petri.Heinila@lut.fi // // // mail: Ainonkatu 2A // // // 53100 Lappeenranta // // // Finland, Europe // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From master@cats.UCSC.EDU Sat Apr 17 15:13:51 1993 Return-Path: Received: from cats.UCSC.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 18 Apr 1993 07:13:55 +0200 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.UCSC.EDU with SMTP id AA28033; Sat, 17 Apr 93 22:13:52 -0700 Received: by am.ucsc.edu (5.65/4.7) id AA24166; Sat, 17 Apr 93 22:13:51 -0700 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 93 22:13:51 -0700 Message-Id: <9304180513.AA24166@am.ucsc.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, frankj@ifi.uio.no From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Subject: Re: Shop listings Status: RO I was thinking of freeing the objects as it is printed to the info window, something like: draw_info(op, object_name(list)) free_object(list) Which, as from what I understand, will delete the head object, so taht can be withing a while loop (while (list!=NULL && objecsts_printed from "Mark Wedel" at Apr 17, 93 09:19:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1907 Status: RO > As the list of what is in the shop is built, it would seem to need > to be attached to the player structure (if a static declaration inside > the function was used, and someone somewhere else got a shop inventory, > it would clobber the data.) Does a variable in the player structure exit > (exist) for this purpose, or do I need to add a new one (no big deal if > I do) No...and the player structure is already hopelessly messed up, another variable won't make much difference... 8) By the way, have a look at the recursive version (which is default now) of the magic-mapping spell, which is able to confine its recursive iterations within one room. > Second, it would seem best to copy the objects into the new list (and > at the same time, merge objects, if possible). It looks like there > are some functions in object.c (libcross) that will do this, yet > there are parts of them which are unclear (like what Enviroment is, and > what it should be set to). Does any good documentaion exist for > libcross? It would seem like the code I need to do will > be something like: > > copy_object(new_obj, shop_obj); > if (!merge_ob(new_obj, list)) > insert_ob_in_ob(new_obj, list); > Where list is the list starting in the player structure. Is > this more or less correct? Yes, but the result would be a lot of allocated objects...which wouldn't be automatically freed in any way. If list is the "menu" object, ie a sign within the shop, it can be used to accumulate copies of all objects in the store when it is first applied, at least temporarily. If you don't free the objects, they will at least be freed when the map is swapped out. The syntax is will be something like: object *tmp = get_object(); copy_object(shop_obj, tmp); insert_ob_in_ob(tmp, list); Merging will be done automatically. Hmm, you're defenitely right in that the library lacks documentation... -Frank. From owner-crossfire Sat Apr 17 14:19:43 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 18 Apr 1993 06:19:49 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cats.UCSC.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 18 Apr 1993 06:19:46 +0200 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.UCSC.EDU with SMTP id AA27216; Sat, 17 Apr 93 21:19:43 -0700 Received: by am.ucsc.edu (5.65/4.7) id AA22448; Sat, 17 Apr 93 21:19:43 -0700 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 93 21:19:43 -0700 Message-Id: <9304180419.AA22448@am.ucsc.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Subject: Shop listings Status: RO I've started working an a shop inventory listing so you don't have to wander around to every space. The way I'm doing it is searching the entire map, and any unpaid item is assumed to be in a shop forsale. This seems to work ok for the limited work I've done (I had it dump that info to stderr). The problem with this method is some maps have multiple subshops (the guild and old shop in the starting village.) Not any real easy solution I can think of. Now my question: As the list of what is in the shop is built, it would seem to need to be attached to the player structure (if a static declaration inside the function was used, and someone somewhere else got a shop inventory, it would clobber the data.) Does a variable in the player structure exit (exist) for this purpose, or do I need to add a new one (no big deal if I do) Second, it would seem best to copy the objects into the new list (and at the same time, merge objects, if possible). It looks like there are some functions in object.c (libcross) that will do this, yet there are parts of them which are unclear (like what Enviroment is, and what it should be set to). Does any good documentaion exist for libcross? It would seem like the code I need to do will be something like: copy_object(new_obj, shop_obj); if (!merge_ob(new_obj, list)) insert_ob_in_ob(new_obj, list); Where list is the list starting in the player structure. Is this more or less correct? And then to get rid of objects as they are displayed in the info window, something like remove_ob(list)? Mark Wedel master@cats.ucsc.edu From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 13 15:08:23 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Thu, 15 Apr 1993 13:01:35 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Thu, 15 Apr 1993 13:01:33 +0200 Received: from spool.uu.net (via localhost.UU.NET) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA13886; Thu, 15 Apr 93 07:01:28 -0400 Received: from eckserver.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 042724.12288; Wed, 14 Apr 1993 04:27:24 EDT Received: from maui.eckerd.edu by eckserver.eckerd.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1:jhs102892) id AA28974; Tue, 13 Apr 93 19:08:23 EDT Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 19:08:23 EDT From: roy@eckerd.edu (Jonathan Roy) Message-Id: <9304132308.AA28974@eckserver.eckerd.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Maps Status: RO In Errh. (Or whatever it's called). Many of the shops in the main city pop you outside on the countryside. New idea. :) If a map is missing, just report to the user "Location closed" or something... Sometimes on buggy maps it'll report "map not found" and dump the player into an ocean with no way out. :( From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 13 19:47:13 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 19:47:15 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from taipaani.cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 19:47:13 +0200 Received: by taipaani.cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA08063; Tue, 13 Apr 93 20:47:07 +0300 From: Tero Haatanen Message-Id: <9304131747.AA08063@taipaani.cc.lut.fi> Subject: Re: suggestions (fwd) To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 20:47:07 EETDST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: RO > > 1. Bank (suggestion) > This problem has occured with me, and I think a bank would be an excellent > solution. I think another solution would be inns, where you could rent room. Every room would have door, which can be opened (passed) with unique key, so only one player can enter there. You could left your extra items there and they would be there safe until you need them. > In this case the map states wouldn't need to be saved if the game crashes, > just the contents of the bank(s). It might be good, if every map could have different reset times, so shops could be reseted more often than some other maps. This way you could find useful items in small shops. Also banks or inns don't need reseted at all. Same way it could defined for each map, if it's saved when server is stopped (or it crashes). > Although using the character name is a sensible idea, how about having to > enter your password when retrieving your goods, in case someone gets smart > with copying files out of the 'players' directory. I'm not sure, if it needed, since server version don't have this problem. (And I don't like typing my password every time when I need my goods.) > > 3. Wearing items in shops (bug) > > > > It's ridiculous that you can't "try on" items in shops (armour, rings, etc.) If you allow applying unpaid objects, there should be checks item types, so you can't read scroll and so on. Also all shops should be designed so that you can't shoplift anything. Currently many shops can be robbed with word of recall. -Tero From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 13 20:46:07 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 20:46:13 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from tansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 20:46:11 +0200 From: Brazil Message-Id: <1529.199304131846@tansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Received: by tansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk id AA01529; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 19:46:09 +0100 Subject: New Crossfire Site To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 19:46:07 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 491 Status: RO I've put Crossfire in /incoming/unix/crossfire at nestor.epfl.ch. This should be a faster link to the UK and perhaps other parts of the world. The one difference with the ifi.uio.no is that the files that were in /pub/crossfire/incoming have been put in /incoming/unix/crossfire. This is my mistake and I'm sorry if it makes it harder for you, perhaps someone would like to correct it before it's put in the main system, but I just haven't got the time. Anyways - happy Easter, Brazil From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 13 19:28:02 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 19:28:26 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from tansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 19:28:20 +0200 From: Brazil Message-Id: <1112.199304131728@tansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Received: by tansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk id AA01112; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 18:28:04 +0100 Subject: Re: new ftp-server To: guyot@enserb.u-bordeaux.fr (Guyot Jean Luc) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 18:28:02 +0100 (BST) Cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no In-Reply-To: <9304131646.AA24328@capitoglio.enserb.u-bordeaux.fr> from "Guyot Jean Luc" at Apr 13, 93 06:46:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 344 Status: RO > > Hello, > > A new ftp-server is coming up, and the ftp-admin agreed we put crossfire there. > So, if someone can put it in /incoming (with a comment file) that'll be fine > (i've no time to do it) > > ftp-server: nestor.epfl.ch > ftp-admin: karim.saouli@epfl.ch > > I'm doing this now. Please don't all rush to try and do it! Brazil From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 13 20:46:20 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 18:53:38 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from capitoglio.enserb.u-bordeaux.fr by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 18:53:31 +0200 Received: by capitoglio.enserb.u-bordeaux.fr (4.1/SM-mailhost-BORDEAUX-1.0) id AA24328; Tue, 13 Apr 93 18:46:20 +0200 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 18:46:20 +0200 From: guyot@enserb.u-bordeaux.fr (Guyot Jean Luc) Message-Id: <9304131646.AA24328@capitoglio.enserb.u-bordeaux.fr> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: new ftp-server Status: RO Hello, A new ftp-server is coming up, and the ftp-admin agreed we put crossfire there. So, if someone can put it in /incoming (with a comment file) that'll be fine (i've no time to do it) ftp-server: nestor.epfl.ch ftp-admin: karim.saouli@epfl.ch From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 13 05:00:22 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 02:01:08 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from joyce.cs.su.OZ.AU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 02:00:34 +0200 Message-Id: <199304130000.AAifi.uio.no00462@ifi.uio.no> Received: from orthanc.cs.su.oz.au (for ifi.uio.no) with MHSnet; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 10:00:29 +1000 Subject: suggestions (fwd) To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 10:00:22 EST From: Fred the Wonder Worm X-Face: )\c`u_%V|7EQUDUt%5v'IJ?=@^Wf^<#,~CjzL`/2q0=-O6XW/Z8A2j.kgg:| 7|YZPSxy}rIuw8qD|/cQZ9^6kb:1XLleXhOl-U>(c~d`bC)%7FItZOUEw?=x%TBQ~NFJ,U|3wi[jzXd5-bMC Reply-To: ftww@cs.su.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL0] Status: RO A few comments from a local player here: ----------------------------begin message--------------------------- 1. Bank (suggestion) I've lost quite a few items tonight because of game crashes. It's all very well for a crashing server to emergency-save the characters themselves, but that means you cannot stockpile items in the town (like food, or anything) without risking losing them. You can, clearly, give them to another character whose purpose in life is to hold them, and you can put that character to sleep so that it doesn't use food -- so the functionality I suggest is there already; but it's clumsy. What I would like to see on the top level is a Bank, perhaps similar to a shop, where you can deposit stuff you don't want to carry (especially if you are a wizard with Strength 8!) but NOT lose it if the game crashes. It would be neat if it remembered what stuff belonged to what character and only let you take out the stuff you yourself had put in. I think it would be OK to work off character name for that. 2. Magic mapping spell (annoying) If magic mapping is going to cost 15 spell points it should damn well do something useful! I want it to show where you can break the walls, and show doors/gates in contrasting colour/bitmap. And damn well show teleporters. Etc. 3. Wearing items in shops (bug) It's ridiculous that you can't "try on" items in shops (armour, rings, etc.) and see what they do to your (e.g.) speed before you buy them. Since the shops cannot be subverted anyway, and since there don't seem to be cursed items (you can always take them off again), there would seem to be no logical reason for the restriction. -----------------------------end message---------------------------- Cheers, Geoff. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Geoff Bailey (Fred the Wonder Worm) | Programmer by trade -- ftww@cs.su.oz.au | Gameplayer by vocation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 13 12:16:18 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 10:20:18 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from pat.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 10:20:14 +0200 X400-Received: by mta pat.uio.no in /PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/; Relayed; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 10:19:38 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; Relayed; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 10:19:05 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 10:18:07 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 10:16:18 +0200 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 10:16:18 +0200 X400-Originator: asg@cs.st-andrews.ac.uk X400-Recipients: crossfire@ifi.uio.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<8991.9304130816@laphroaig.cs.st] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: suggestio... From: Goudge Austin S R Message-Id: <8991.9304130816@laphroaig.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: suggestions (fwd) Status: RO > > 1. Bank (suggestion) > > I've lost quite a few items tonight because of game crashes. It's all very > well for a crashing server to emergency-save the characters themselves, but > that means you cannot stockpile items in the town (like food, or anything) > without risking losing them. You can, clearly, give them to another > character whose purpose in life is to hold them, and you can put that > character to sleep so that it doesn't use food -- so the functionality > I suggest is there already; but it's clumsy. What I would like to see > on the top level is a Bank, perhaps similar to a shop, where you can > deposit stuff you don't want to carry (especially if you are a wizard > with Strength 8!) but NOT lose it if the game crashes. It would be > neat if it remembered what stuff belonged to what character and > only let you take out the stuff you yourself had put in. I think > it would be OK to work off character name for that. > This problem has occured with me, and I think a bank would be an excellent solution. In this case the map states wouldn't need to be saved if the game crashes, just the contents of the bank(s). Although using the character name is a sensible idea, how about having to enter your password when retrieving your goods, in case someone gets smart with copying files out of the 'players' directory. > > > 3. Wearing items in shops (bug) > > > > It's ridiculous that you can't "try on" items in shops (armour, rings, etc.) > > and see what they do to your (e.g.) speed before you buy them. Since the > > shops cannot be subverted anyway, and since there don't seem to be cursed > > items (you can always take them off again), there would seem to be no > > logical reason for the restriction. > > Yes it would be nice to be able to try on items in shops, but we should also > have cursed items. > Definitely. Cursed rings especially would be an excellent addition to the game. Remember there must be a way to remove them (remove curse spell, or old sages in far- off towns, ready to exchange the service for money or equipment, perhaps even requiring a particular item to be found before the curse is removed (quest). God I'm getting poetic !!) Maybe I'm getting carried away, but I think the idea is there ... Aussi. From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 13 21:13:29 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 03:14:17 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (aaii_slip.aaii.oz.AU) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 03:13:59 +0200 Received: by yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (5.65c/SMI-4.0/AAII) id AA21029; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 11:13:29 +1000 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 11:13:29 +1000 From: Rupert G. Goldie Message-Id: <199304130113.AA21029@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: suggestions (fwd) Status: RO > 1. Bank (suggestion) > > I've lost quite a few items tonight because of game crashes. It's all very > well for a crashing server to emergency-save the characters themselves, but > that means you cannot stockpile items in the town (like food, or anything) > without risking losing them. You can, clearly, give them to another > character whose purpose in life is to hold them, and you can put that > character to sleep so that it doesn't use food -- so the functionality > I suggest is there already; but it's clumsy. What I would like to see > on the top level is a Bank, perhaps similar to a shop, where you can > deposit stuff you don't want to carry (especially if you are a wizard > with Strength 8!) but NOT lose it if the game crashes. It would be > neat if it remembered what stuff belonged to what character and > only let you take out the stuff you yourself had put in. I think > it would be OK to work off character name for that. > This is something of a bummer. I've had the same problem once or twice as well. Perhaps as we seem to be moving towards a server version we can solve this problem by having the server able to restart using maps stored in /tmp. I also quite like the idea of a Bank to store stuff in. > 3. Wearing items in shops (bug) > > It's ridiculous that you can't "try on" items in shops (armour, rings, etc.) > and see what they do to your (e.g.) speed before you buy them. Since the > shops cannot be subverted anyway, and since there don't seem to be cursed > items (you can always take them off again), there would seem to be no > logical reason for the restriction. Yes it would be nice to be able to try on items in shops, but we should also have cursed items. Rupert From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 12 21:27:18 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 19:27:22 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 19:27:20 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA14361; Mon, 12 Apr 93 19:27:18 +0200 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 19:27:18 +0200 From: Petri Heinil{ Message-Id: <9304121727.AA14361@cc.lut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Shops Status: RO >From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) > > One thing I would also like to see in shops is greater meaning to the >shop type. Yes, this is good idea. This gives more indenty to shops and therefore to towns. Just an idea, every town would be specialiced to some kind of shop. For example, start town would be specialiced to general ( food ) and gems. Hmm ... I am going specialice Fireham to books and Trasia to general. > Right now, pretty much every shop has items that do not reflect the >type it is (not every shop, but many.) The shops in the starting >village show this. Yes, there are too much "supermarkets" ( I am guilty too :) ). > Likewise, a shop would only buy an item if it is an item of that >shop type (armor shop only buys armmor, not food. weapon shop only >buys weapons, etc..) > > The one exception might be that any shop will buy gems, since they are >used for money if you have a lot of it (not practical to carry around >10,000 gp, for example.) There are gem-converters also. > The inventory of a shop does not seem like it would be that difficult too >do (maybe I'll look into doing it.) > > Mark Wedel >master@cats.ucsc.edu > //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // Petri Heinila // email: Petri.Heinila@lut.fi // // // mail: Ainonkatu 2A // // // 53100 Lappeenranta // // // Finland, Europe // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 12 21:09:36 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 19:09:43 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 19:09:38 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA14228; Mon, 12 Apr 93 19:09:36 +0200 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 19:09:36 +0200 From: Petri Heinil{ Message-Id: <9304121709.AA14228@cc.lut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Shops Status: RO >From: Christopher Carpinello > >Lars Henrik Olafsen writes: >> >> >> >From: Petri Heinil{ >> > >> >Once again, in shop design, there should be more smaller shops. >> >The meaning of shop decreases if you find one shop at a time the >> >item what you are looking for. Shops could be substituted some >> >kind of item-automata. >> >> I detest the idea of an item-automata, BUT: > >As do I. > >> If there only were small shops around.. wouldn't you just save and restart >> until you found what you wanted? (A lot of shops are close to >> save-beds.) > >I think people are missing the point here (or I'm looking at it from a >much larger perspective): once the client/server code becomes stable, >I can forsee crossfire game servers running for months (thus the >"solution" of saving your character, restarting crossfire, and >reentering the game to check out the newly restocked shops will not be >feasible, unless you are the local DM). > >> Big shops are practical.... > >Yeah, they pratically make "item hunting" no fun. Maybe that will >change when Frank filters through all the maps. > >> I would rather make good things REALLY expensive. > >I would rather make good things REALLY hard to find. Hmm, some definitions of good things. Ring mail +4 and Excalibur are good things. But ring mail +4 is usual thing, which can found from some of shops anyway, if you search long enough. Excalibur is artifact found belong some arcade, moustly generated from random_artifact-Object. So there are some kind of disinction of between artifacts and shop-goods. And I see no sense to make shop-goods very hard to find. They have to be correct price ( current pricing of CrossFire seems to be quite good ), so you have to arcade to get money to get item. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // Petri Heinila // email: Petri.Heinila@lut.fi // // // mail: Ainonkatu 2A // // // 53100 Lappeenranta // // // Finland, Europe // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 12 14:12:20 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 12:15:30 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from pat.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 12:15:28 +0200 X400-Received: by mta pat.uio.no in /PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/; Relayed; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 12:15:18 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; Relayed; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 12:15:08 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 12:14:09 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 12:12:20 +0200 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 12:12:20 +0200 X400-Originator: asg@cs.st-andrews.ac.uk X400-Recipients: crossfire@ifi.uio.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<4242.9304121012@laphroaig.cs.st] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Shops From: Goudge Austin S R Message-Id: <4242.9304121012@laphroaig.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Shops Status: RO > > I prefer the idea of an item-automata, but would like to have no > artifacts/ powerful potions available for sale. You should have to go > out and find them. This would of course require that you have places > available where you can be pretty sure you would get those things. > I agree, the idea of buying artifacts or even good magical weapons in shops is crazy. A shop should be there for basic equipment. If you want decent stuff, you should go out and find it. From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 17:10:51 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 09:11:03 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cats.UCSC.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 09:11:01 +0200 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.UCSC.EDU with SMTP id AA11839; Mon, 12 Apr 93 00:10:54 -0700 Received: by am.ucsc.edu (5.65/4.7) id AA27799; Mon, 12 Apr 93 00:10:51 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 00:10:51 -0700 Message-Id: <9304120710.AA27799@am.ucsc.edu> To: chrisc@cs.odu.edu, crossfire@ifi.uio.no From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Subject: Re: Shops Status: RO One thing I would also like to see in shops is greater meaning to the shop type. Right now, pretty much every shop has items that do not reflect the type it is (not every shop, but many.) The shops in the starting village show this. Likewise, a shop would only buy an item if it is an item of that shop type (armor shop only buys armmor, not food. weapon shop only buys weapons, etc..) The one exception might be that any shop will buy gems, since they are used for money if you have a lot of it (not practical to carry around 10,000 gp, for example.) The inventory of a shop does not seem like it would be that difficult too do (maybe I'll look into doing it.) Mark Wedel master@cats.ucsc.edu From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 21:33:13 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 07:33:30 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from hengest.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 07:33:20 +0200 Received: by hengest.cs.odu.edu (4.1/lanleaf2.4) id AA21045; Mon, 12 Apr 93 01:33:13 EDT Message-Id: <9304120533.AA21045@hengest.cs.odu.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 01:33:13 EDT From: Christopher Carpinello To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Shops In-Reply-To: References: Status: RO Lars Henrik Olafsen writes: > > > >From: Petri Heinil{ > > > >Once again, in shop design, there should be more smaller shops. > >The meaning of shop decreases if you find one shop at a time the > >item what you are looking for. Shops could be substituted some > >kind of item-automata. > > I detest the idea of an item-automata, BUT: As do I. > If there only were small shops around.. wouldn't you just save and restart > until you found what you wanted? (A lot of shops are close to > save-beds.) I think people are missing the point here (or I'm looking at it from a much larger perspective): once the client/server code becomes stable, I can forsee crossfire game servers running for months (thus the "solution" of saving your character, restarting crossfire, and reentering the game to check out the newly restocked shops will not be feasible, unless you are the local DM). > Big shops are practical.... Yeah, they pratically make "item hunting" no fun. Maybe that will change when Frank filters through all the maps. > I would rather make good things REALLY expensive. I would rather make good things REALLY hard to find. #chris From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 05:50:56 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 21:51:16 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from halcyon.com by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 21:51:11 +0200 Received: by halcyon.com id AA02336 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no); Sun, 11 Apr 1993 12:50:56 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 12:50:56 -0700 From: Jonathan Roy Message-Id: <199304111950.AA02336@halcyon.com> To: Petri.Heinila@lut.fi, crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Shops Status: RO I didn't know you could use the number and pick up a certain amount. :D In fact, I've never know that.. Makes tradin gmoney so much easier... FOr piles of stuff in a shop, I meant 4-5 of the same type of item. :) F F Jonathan Roy, of the Free Access Foundation Email: ninja@faf.org A Mail faf@halcyon.com for information, or FTP to halcyon.com: /pub/faf/ F F Vorlons, of the Galactic Bloodshed Development Team GEnie: J.ROY18 "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - _RotJ_ From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 23:39:00 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 21:39:02 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 21:39:01 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA03146; Sun, 11 Apr 93 21:39:00 +0200 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 93 21:39:00 +0200 From: Petri Heinil{ Message-Id: <9304111939.AA03146@cc.lut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Shops Status: RO >From: Jonathan Roy > >You could design the shops to have specific items in them, with 4 or 5 >of each piled up on a space... :) Ie: The store stocks up to sell >them to multiple people, or whatever, and they have the same >inventory every time. Well, piling would make some mess in the shop :) . >Also, there should be a way to pick up and drop 1 of a given >items. (50 food on ground, you want to pick up 2....) Can't you do it by entering the number of amount and picking it up. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // Petri Heinila // email: Petri.Heinila@lut.fi // // // mail: Ainonkatu 2A // // // 53100 Lappeenranta // // // Finland, Europe // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 05:28:06 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 21:28:22 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from halcyon.com by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 21:28:17 +0200 Received: by halcyon.com id AA01666 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no); Sun, 11 Apr 1993 12:28:06 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 12:28:06 -0700 From: Jonathan Roy Message-Id: <199304111928.AA01666@halcyon.com> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, eanders+@cmu.edu Subject: Re: Shops Status: RO Unfortuantly, server mode crashs alot for us. If it dropped core, we could run it into gdb and see where. :) F F Jonathan Roy, of the Free Access Foundation Email: ninja@faf.org A Mail faf@halcyon.com for information, or FTP to halcyon.com: /pub/faf/ F F Vorlons, of the Galactic Bloodshed Development Team GEnie: J.ROY18 "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - _RotJ_ From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 05:25:39 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 21:25:46 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from halcyon.com by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 21:25:42 +0200 Received: by halcyon.com id AA01616 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for larso@ifi.uio.no); Sun, 11 Apr 1993 12:25:39 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 12:25:39 -0700 From: Jonathan Roy Message-Id: <199304111925.AA01616@halcyon.com> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, larso@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Shops Status: RO You could design the shops to have specific items in them, with 4 or 5 of each piled up on a space... :) Ie: The store stocks up to sell them to multiple people, or whatever, and they have the same inventory every time. Also, there should be a way to pick up and drop 1 of a given items. (50 food on ground, you want to pick up 2....) From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 10:14:06 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 20:37:05 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from PO2.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 20:37:03 +0200 Received: by po2.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for crossfire@ifi.uio.no; Sun, 11 Apr 93 14:15:39 EDT Received: via switchmail; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 14:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 14:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 14:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.madhatter.ws.cc.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 14:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 14:14:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Eric A. Anderson" To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Shops In-Reply-To: References: Status: RO Lars Henrik Olafsen writes: > >Once again, in shop design, there should be more smaller shops. > >The meaning of shop decreases if you find one shop at a time the > >item what you are looking for. Shops could be substituted some > >kind of item-automata. > > I detest the idea of an item-automata, BUT: I prefer the idea of an item-automata, but would like to have no artifacts/ powerful potions available for sale. You should have to go out and find them. This would of course require that you have places available where you can be pretty sure you would get those things. > If there only were small shops around.. wouldn't you just save and restart > until you found what you wanted? (A lot of shops are close to save-beds.) Not under the server mode. At least for most of the people playing at andyland on my server, they can't restart to try and find something, they can't back up their characters, etc. -Eric ********************************************************* "It seemed like a good idea at the time" -The Mad Hatter "Yes, you're very smart. Shut up." -In "The Princess Bride" ********************************************************* From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 20:25:50 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 18:25:53 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 18:25:51 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA00550; Sun, 11 Apr 93 18:25:50 +0200 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 93 18:25:50 +0200 From: Petri Heinil{ Message-Id: <9304111625.AA00550@cc.lut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Shops Status: RO >From: Lars Henrik Olafsen > >>From: Petri Heinil{ >> >>Once again, in shop design, there should be more smaller shops. >>The meaning of shop decreases if you find one shop at a time the >>item what you are looking for. Shops could be substituted some >>kind of item-automata. > >I detest the idea of an item-automata, BUT: >If there only were small shops around.. wouldn't you just save and restart >until you found what you wanted? (A lot of shops are close to save-beds.) >Big shops are practical.... Are they, you have to walk around and check out couple of items, because of statistics you find often cheap items, what you likely owns. And are they realistic in genre of games like crossfire. And, I think, shop lose their identity in big size, like supermarkets in real world. >I would rather make good things REALLY expensive. Yes, this is good solution, and statistics would be so that, good items are likely as possible as cheap ones, so you find item in first or in second shop. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // Petri Heinila // email: hevi@lut.fi // // // mail: Ainonkatu 2A // // // 53100 Lappeenranta // // // Finland, Europe // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 07:52:56 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 17:53:17 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from PO2.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 17:53:15 +0200 Received: by po2.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for crossfire@ifi.uio.no; Sun, 11 Apr 93 11:53:14 EDT Received: via switchmail; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 11:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 11:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 11:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.0.1.23.EzMail.2.0.c.s.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pcs14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.pcs14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 11:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 11:52:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Ian Michael Schreiber To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: NOT_PERMADEATH patch. Cc: In-Reply-To: <9304102107.AA26637@modeemi.cs.tut.fi> Status: RO Only level 25? I've got a 95 myself, and there's a few over here catching up to me... As far as wearing lifesaving amulets automatically, that'd just make any character _way_ too mondo. Not only would you never die if you carried enough of them, but then you could also wear another amulet for protection (ac+2, maybe?). High-level characters are insanely powerful enough as it is, IMHO. --"Gannon" From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 19:19:07 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 17:19:04 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from yrsa.ifi.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 17:19:03 +0200 Received: by yrsa.ifi.uio.no ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 17:19:07 +0200 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 17:19:07 +0200 From: Lars Henrik Olafsen To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Shops Message-Id: Status: RO >From: Petri Heinil{ > >Once again, in shop design, there should be more smaller shops. >The meaning of shop decreases if you find one shop at a time the >item what you are looking for. Shops could be substituted some >kind of item-automata. I detest the idea of an item-automata, BUT: If there only were small shops around.. wouldn't you just save and restart until you found what you wanted? (A lot of shops are close to save-beds.) Big shops are practical.... I would rather make good things REALLY expensive. -Lars From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 15:55:07 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 13:55:10 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 13:55:08 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA28534; Sun, 11 Apr 93 13:55:07 +0200 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 93 13:55:07 +0200 From: Petri Heinil{ Message-Id: <9304111155.AA28534@cc.lut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: A few thoughts/notes. Status: RO >From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) > > Found a little free time, and played around with it more. So here >are a few thoughts/suggestions/questions: > > 1) It would be nice to name rings/amulets (like you can in nethack.) It >gets tiring to have to examine a ring to see what it does (and see >if that is the one I want equipped or another.) If I have a ring >with the property cha+1, it would be nice to call it a ring of >charisma or something. > > 2) Naming of the protection scrolls needs to be re-done, so what >it protects against comes earlier in the name. As it is, all that gets >displayed is up to about 'from' in the You See window. Which means doing >E (or mouse button) to see what it protects from in the info window. One (kludge) solution is to play in split-window mode. Make the inventory window so wide that names fit into it. > Other thoughts: > > A nice list of everything that is in the store would be great. Once >again, it can be tiring walking over every square if you are just looking >for one item. Good idea, menu of the day. Hmm, it could be some kind of menu sheet. You apply sheet and get menu list. But this expects that all names of items fit into text window. Once again, in shop design, there should be more smaller shops. The meaning of shop decreases if you find one shop at a time the item what you are looking for. Shops could be substituted some kind of item-automata. > A fast way of resting (to regain hp or sp). Still give the monsters >their moves, but quicken it up. As things are right now, if I am down >a lot of spellpoints, I'll sit in town (where no monsters exist), eat >all my food, and do something else for 10 minutes as my character regains >his spellpoints. I you use two magic+1 rings, when resting, you get your sp's fairly fast. Or buy "power magic" potions :) . > I think a 1 player/multiplayer flag may be appropriate. Some of these > might be more reasonable in a single player game (which is what I play) What are the main differences ( requirements ) between single- and multiplayer-mode. At now I can't think any, I have been played fine with 0.89 alone. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // Petri Heinila // email: hevi@lut.fi // // // mail: Ainonkatu 2A // // // 53100 Lappeenranta // // // Finland, Europe // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 12 00:01:02 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 06:01:35 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (aaii_slip.aaii.oz.AU) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 06:01:27 +0200 Received: from localhost.aaii.oz.AU by yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au with SMTP (5.65c/SMI-4.0/AAII) id AA28980; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 14:01:04 +1000 Message-Id: <199304110401.AA28980@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au> To: master@cats.ucsc.edu (Mark Wedel) Cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: A few thoughts/notes. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 10 Apr 1993 20:14:35 MST." <9304110314.AA26279@am.ucsc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 14:01:02 +1000 From: Anthony Baxter Status: RO In message <9304110314.AA26279@am.ucsc.edu>you write: > 1) It would be nice to name rings/amulets (like you can in nethack.) It > gets tiring to have to examine a ring to see what it does (and see > if that is the one I want equipped or another.) If I have a ring > with the property cha+1, it would be nice to call it a ring of > charisma or something. > > 2) Naming of the protection scrolls needs to be re-done, so what > it protects against comes earlier in the name. As it is, all that gets > displayed is up to about 'from' in the You See window. Which means doing > E (or mouse button) to see what it protects from in the info window. I suggested these two to Frank a while ago - as far as a player naming an item, he wanted to wait until a proper command parser was in. Still, 'twould be nice if you could see what a ring was when you stepped on it, or when it was in your inventory. > > A nice list of everything that is in the store would be great. Once > again, it can be tiring walking over every square if you are just looking > for one item. Yeah, this would be nice. > A fast way of resting (to regain hp or sp). Still give the monsters > their moves, but quicken it up. As things are right now, if I am down > a lot of spellpoints, I'll sit in town (where no monsters exist), eat > all my food, and do something else for 10 minutes as my character regains > his spellpoints. Take all your armor off, this makes the spellpoints come back faster. (Just remember to put it back on again when you go into combat :-) > I think a 1 player/multiplayer flag may be appropriate. Some of these > might be more reasonable in a single player game (which is what I play) The last of these definately only should be in a singe player game. From owner-crossfire Sat Apr 10 19:48:28 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 05:49:05 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from poppy.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 05:48:51 +0200 Received: by poppy.cs.odu.edu (4.1/lanleaf2.4) id AA09448; Sat, 10 Apr 93 23:48:28 EDT Message-Id: <9304110348.AA09448@poppy.cs.odu.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 93 23:48:28 EDT From: d. To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: A few thoughts/notes Status: RO healing in town for spell points?!? try this. talke OFF your armor!! d. From owner-crossfire Sat Apr 10 13:35:16 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 05:35:24 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from halcyon.com by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 05:35:21 +0200 Received: by halcyon.com id AA23152 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no); Sat, 10 Apr 1993 20:35:16 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1993 20:35:16 -0700 From: Jonathan Roy Message-Id: <199304110335.AA23152@halcyon.com> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, master@cats.UCSC.EDU Subject: Re: A few thoughts/notes. Status: RO Yeah, instead of "Scroll of Protection from Fire" maybe "Scroll of Fire Protection". That'd fit at least teh Fire in the window without using -w. F F Jonathan Roy, of the Free Access Foundation Email: ninja@faf.org A Mail faf@halcyon.com for information, or FTP to halcyon.com: /pub/faf/ F F Vorlons, of the Galactic Bloodshed Development Team GEnie: J.ROY18 "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - _RotJ_ From owner-crossfire Sat Apr 10 13:14:35 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 05:14:41 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cats.UCSC.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 05:14:39 +0200 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.UCSC.EDU with SMTP id AA17064; Sat, 10 Apr 93 20:14:36 -0700 Received: by am.ucsc.edu (5.65/4.7) id AA26279; Sat, 10 Apr 93 20:14:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 93 20:14:35 -0700 Message-Id: <9304110314.AA26279@am.ucsc.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no From: master@cats.UCSC.EDU (Mark Wedel) Subject: A few thoughts/notes. Status: RO Found a little free time, and played around with it more. So here are a few thoughts/suggestions/questions: 1) It would be nice to name rings/amulets (like you can in nethack.) It gets tiring to have to examine a ring to see what it does (and see if that is the one I want equipped or another.) If I have a ring with the property cha+1, it would be nice to call it a ring of charisma or something. 2) Naming of the protection scrolls needs to be re-done, so what it protects against comes earlier in the name. As it is, all that gets displayed is up to about 'from' in the You See window. Which means doing E (or mouse button) to see what it protects from in the info window. Other thoughts: A nice list of everything that is in the store would be great. Once again, it can be tiring walking over every square if you are just looking for one item. A fast way of resting (to regain hp or sp). Still give the monsters their moves, but quicken it up. As things are right now, if I am down a lot of spellpoints, I'll sit in town (where no monsters exist), eat all my food, and do something else for 10 minutes as my character regains his spellpoints. I think a 1 player/multiplayer flag may be appropriate. Some of these might be more reasonable in a single player game (which is what I play) Mark Wedel master@cats.ucsc.edu From owner-crossfire Sat Apr 10 12:01:17 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 04:06:11 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from phloem.uoregon.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 04:06:09 +0200 Received: from darmok.uoregon.edu by phloem.uoregon.edu (4.1/UofO NetSvc-02/16/93) id AA29298; Sat, 10 Apr 93 19:06:05 PDT Received: by darmok.uoregon.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0S) id AA01265; Sat, 10 Apr 93 19:06:04 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1993 19:01:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Fosback Subject: Re: NOT_PERMADEATH patch. To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no In-Reply-To: <9304102115.AA05092@cynric.cs.odu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO As in Nethack, it is nice that you get attatched to a character. However, it should be just like Nethack in that you die when you actually die. Perhaps the best solution to satisfy everyone is to allow the patch to be an *option* at compile time. That way, it can be the choice of the "DM" whether or not people get to continue on after death... -jason _________________________________________________________________ Jason Fosback, User Support Analyst | No sir, I didn't like it ---- University of Oregon ---- | -R&S Internet: jfosback@oregon.uoregon.edu | Star Trek: NeXT mail: jfosback@darmok.uoregon.edu | The NeXT Generation... From owner-crossfire Sat Apr 10 13:15:30 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sat, 10 Apr 1993 23:15:55 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cynric.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sat, 10 Apr 1993 23:15:48 +0200 Received: by cynric.cs.odu.edu (4.1/lanleaf2.4) id AA05092; Sat, 10 Apr 93 17:15:30 EDT Message-Id: <9304102115.AA05092@cynric.cs.odu.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 93 17:15:30 EDT From: d. To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: NOT_PERMADEATH patch. Status: RO ye gods! around here, we get immensely BORED with the game after level 25 or so. No death till 50th?!? Pthah! d. From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 11 03:07:05 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sat, 10 Apr 1993 23:10:23 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from modeemi.cs.tut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sat, 10 Apr 1993 23:10:21 +0200 Received: by modeemi.cs.tut.fi (4.1/vissykola) id AA26637; Sun, 11 Apr 93 00:07:05 +0300 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 93 00:07:05 +0300 From: mta@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Markku Jarvinen) Message-Id: <9304102107.AA26637@modeemi.cs.tut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu Subject: Re: NOT_PERMADEATH patch. Status: RO Maybe it should be like you don't die for real before level 50 or something. Because to reach level 50 (or 30 actually) takes some time, after that you can only die if you screw major (with current maps). And then I'd like if all your lifesaving would be worn automatically, so then 7 of them would get you out of almost all situations. - Markku P.S. You can always start building new character after level 30, just give it all potions you find and it soon is tough level 1 character. The same goes with extra equipment too. From owner-crossfire Sat Apr 10 09:17:23 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sat, 10 Apr 1993 21:17:28 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from anthrax.cs.wisc.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sat, 10 Apr 1993 21:17:26 +0200 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 93 14:17:23 -0500 From: bestor@cs.wisc.edu (Gareth S. Bestor) Message-Id: <9304101917.AA23565@anthrax.cs.wisc.edu> Received: by anthrax.cs.wisc.edu; Sat, 10 Apr 93 14:17:23 -0500 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: simple question Status: RO I just got crossfire 0.89.2 up on my NeXT. I was wondering if/how you can start a one player game, save it and resume it at a later date. I see that you can start and save easy enough, but once you quit it always ask me to create a new player and won't accept an existing player name. - Gareth BTW: Very nice program! From owner-crossfire Fri Apr 9 07:29:11 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Fri, 9 Apr 1993 17:27:46 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Fri, 9 Apr 1993 17:27:43 +0200 Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (4.1/MSU-2.01) id AA02556; Fri, 9 Apr 93 11:29:11 EDT Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 11:29:11 EDT From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <9304091529.AA02556@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: NOT_PERMADEATH patch. Status: RO Well my players and I have gotten too irritated at dying and losing everything because of a stupid party member opening doors on dragons, or by doing something inadvertantly... Soo, I decided to make death more paletable. With this patch #define'd death no longer kills you permanently. Instead, you (and your items) are whisked back to the start town, where you instantly lose 20% of your experience, and one of your stats permanently. Although this sounds painless, it isnt! 20% of a million or more is LOTS, and HURTS! In any case, here's the changes if your interested: Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu *** player.c Thu Apr 8 05:50:46 1993 --- player.new Fri Apr 9 11:23:18 1993 *************** *** 1483,1488 **** --- 1483,1616 ---- } else sprintf(buf,"%s died.",op->name); + + #ifdef NOT_PERMADEATH + /****************************************************************************/ + /* Patch: NOT_PERMADEATH Author: Charles Henrich */ + /* Email: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu Date : April 9, 1993 */ + /* */ + /* Purpose: This patch changes death from being a permanent, very painful */ + /* thing, to a painful, but survivable thing. More mudlike in */ + /* nature. With this patch defined, when a player dies, they will */ + /* permanently lose one point off of a random stat, as well as */ + /* losing 20% of their experience points. Then they are whisked */ + /* to the start map. Although this sounds very nice here, it is */ + /* still REAL painful to die, 20% of a million is alot! */ + /* */ + /****************************************************************************/ + + /**************************************/ + /* */ + /* Pick a stat, and steal on pt from */ + /* it... */ + /* */ + /**************************************/ + + switch(RANDOM()%6) + { + case 0: + { + if(op->stats.Dex > 1) op->stats.Dex--; + op->contr->orig_stats.Dex=op->stats.Dex; + break; + } + + case 1: + { + if(op->stats.Con > 1) op->stats.Con--; + op->contr->orig_stats.Con=op->stats.Con; + break; + } + + case 2: + { + if(op->stats.Int > 1) op->stats.Int--; + op->contr->orig_stats.Int=op->stats.Int; + break; + } + + case 3: + { + if(op->stats.Cha > 1) op->stats.Cha--; + op->contr->orig_stats.Cha=op->stats.Cha; + break; + } + + case 4: + { + if(op->stats.Str > 1) op->stats.Str--; + op->contr->orig_stats.Str=op->stats.Str; + break; + } + case 5: + { + if(op->stats.Wis > 1) op->stats.Wis--; + op->contr->orig_stats.Wis=op->stats.Wis; + break; + } + } + + tmp=arch_to_object(find_archetype("gravestone")); + + /**************************************/ + /* */ + /* Lets make up a gravestone to put */ + /* here... We put experience lost on */ + /* it for kicks.... */ + /* */ + /**************************************/ + + sprintf(buf,"%s's gravestone",op->name); + tmp->name=add_string(buf); + sprintf(buf,"RIP\nHere rests the hero %s the %s,\n" + "who lost %d experience when killed\n" + "by %s.\n", + op->name, op->contr->title, (int)(op->stats.exp * 0.20), + op->contr->killer); + tmp->msg = add_string(buf); + tmp->x=op->x,tmp->y=op->y; + insert_ob_in_map(tmp,op->map); + + /**************************************/ + /* */ + /* Move the player to the beginning */ + /* map.... */ + /* */ + /**************************************/ + + tmp=get_object(); + EXIT_LEVEL(tmp) = first_map_level; + EXIT_X(tmp) = -1; + EXIT_Y(tmp) = -1; + enter_exit(op,tmp); + free_object(tmp); + + /**************************************/ + /* */ + /* Subtract the experience points, */ + /* if we died cause of food, give us */ + /* food, and reset HP's... */ + /* */ + /**************************************/ + + add_exp(op, (op->stats.exp * -0.20)); + if(op->stats.food < 0) op->stats.food = 500; + op->stats.hp = op->stats.maxhp; + + /**************************************/ + /* */ + /* Repaint the characters inv, and */ + /* stats, and show a nasty message ;) */ + /* */ + /**************************************/ + + draw_stats(op); + draw_all_inventory(op); + draw_info(op,"!!!!! YOU HAVE DIED, (HE HE HE :) !!!!!"); + info_flush(); + return; + #endif + #ifdef SIMPLE_PARTY_SYSTEM op->contr->party_number=(-1); #endif /* SIMPLE_PARTY_SYSTEM */ From owner-crossfire Wed Apr 7 17:37:11 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Thu, 8 Apr 1993 03:35:50 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Thu, 8 Apr 1993 03:35:47 +0200 Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (4.1/MSU-2.01) id AA03579; Wed, 7 Apr 93 21:37:13 EDT From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <9304080137.AA03579@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Cant compile on Rs/6000 anyone help? To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 21:37:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1183 Status: RO Im trying to bring up crossfire 0.89.2 on my rs/6000 (aix 3.2.3) here, and am having zero luck, if I try and compile it with the native C compiler It gets through making the makefiles, and depending, however one the first file, arch.c, I get the following error sequence: cc -O -I../include -I/usr/local/X11R5/include -DSYSV -DAIXV3 -DFONTDIR=\"/usr/local/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/misc\" -DFONTNAME=\"crossfire\" -DLIBDIR=\"/home/lib/crossfire\" -c arch.c "../include/define.h", line 33.9: 1506-188 (E) Predefined macro __STDC__ cannot be redefined. "arch.c", line 315.12: 1506-132 (S) Function face_to_archetype cannot be redeclared. "arch.c", line 333.9: 1506-132 (S) Function clone_arch_from_face cannot be redeclared. If I tweak the makefiles to use gcc -ansi -O, (defining the force compiler doesnt work...) it compiles all the way through, however when clients connect to it I see: Failed to decode remote version: J 0.89.2 Anyone have any ideas? I really really want to get this up and running! -Crh tweak it to compile with gcc, when I run it, the clients cannot connect, they get a Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 8 00:08:37 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Wed, 7 Apr 1993 06:08:57 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (aaii_slip.aaii.oz.AU) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Wed, 7 Apr 1993 06:08:46 +0200 Received: by yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (5.65c/SMI-4.0/AAII) id AA19214; Wed, 7 Apr 1993 14:08:37 +1000 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 14:08:37 +1000 From: Rupert G. Goldie Message-Id: <199304070408.AA19214@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: bug or feature? Status: RO > From: Christopher Carpinello > I've noticed that spells can be cast through doormatts that > are [mainly] used inside of shops (try casting spells with spell > effects [like fire from burning hands] and spell missiles [like a > fireball] at a doormatt). > > Just wondering if this was a widely known "feature". I don't think it's widely known. We noticed it when someone tried dropping a bomb on a doormat 8) Rupert From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 6 19:15:57 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Wed, 7 Apr 1993 05:16:19 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Wed, 7 Apr 1993 05:16:11 +0200 Received: from sage.odu.edu (sage.cs.odu.edu) by chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu (4.1/server2.4) id AA19558; Tue, 6 Apr 93 23:15:57 EDT Message-Id: <9304070315.AA19558@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 93 23:15:57 EDT From: Christopher Carpinello Received: by sage.odu.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00403; Tue, 6 Apr 93 23:11:58 EDT To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: bug or feature? In-Reply-To: <9304070306.AA19479@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu> References: <9304070306.AA19479@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu> Content-Length: 559 Status: RO Christopher Carpinello writes: > doormatts that are [mainly] used inside of shops (try casting spells > with spell effects [like fire from burning hands] and spell missiles > [like a fireball] at a doormatt). > > #chris sorry, my message was cut off. it should have read: I've noticed that spells can be cast through doormatts that are [mainly] used inside of shops (try casting spells with spell effects [like fire from burning hands] and spell missiles [like a fireball] at a doormatt). Just wondering if this was a widely known "feature". #chris From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 6 19:06:28 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Wed, 7 Apr 1993 05:06:58 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Wed, 7 Apr 1993 05:06:46 +0200 Received: from sage.odu.edu (sage.cs.odu.edu) by chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu (4.1/server2.4) id AA19479; Tue, 6 Apr 93 23:06:28 EDT Message-Id: <9304070306.AA19479@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 93 23:06:28 EDT From: Christopher Carpinello Received: by sage.odu.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00396; Tue, 6 Apr 93 23:02:29 EDT To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: bug or feature? Content-Length: 237 I noticed that it's possible to cast spells through the Status: RO doormatts that are [mainly] used inside of shops (try casting spells with spell effects [like fire from burning hands] and spell missiles [like a fireball] at a doormatt). #chris From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 6 10:10:00 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Tue, 6 Apr 1993 20:10:17 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from aesc.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Tue, 6 Apr 1993 20:10:12 +0200 Received: by aesc.cs.odu.edu (4.1/lanleaf2.4) id AA03722; Tue, 6 Apr 93 14:10:00 EDT Message-Id: <9304061810.AA03722@aesc.cs.odu.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 93 14:10:00 EDT From: Lord Victor Darken Dargosani To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: request removal Status: RO I request to be removed from the mailing list. Thank you. From owner-crossfire Tue Apr 6 15:39:46 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Tue, 6 Apr 1993 11:43:06 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from modeemi.cs.tut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Tue, 6 Apr 1993 11:43:05 +0200 Received: by modeemi.cs.tut.fi (4.1/vissykola) id AA28387; Tue, 6 Apr 93 12:39:46 +0300 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 93 12:39:46 +0300 From: anipa@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) Message-Id: <9304060939.AA28387@modeemi.cs.tut.fi> To: Christopher Carpinello Cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, mta@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Markku Jarvinen) Subject: Re: SIMPLE_PARTY_SYSTEM References: <9304031919.AA12503@modeemi.cs.tut.fi> <9304052001.AA03177@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu> Status: RO Christopher Carpinello writes: > I haven't had the time to look closely at this so I'll ask: does the > simple party system make sure that all party members are in the same > map before dividing up experience? Otherwise, it would be possible > for a newbie to join a wyvern hunting party, hang around in town (map > #4) and gain experience without doing a thing.... No it does not, but then again there are several maps where you can hang around safely whilst friends get the exp for you. As there are several maps that have multiple levels (stairsbetween 'rooms') which really are one map. We thought about forcing players to be withing los of each other and some other ways of doing it, but there really was no fair way. Besides if your friends are level 10 and you just died you are worthless to them on level 1. Now they can party you to level 5 or so without having to wait several hours before you are tough enough to survive with them. ++Anipa From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 5 22:20:59 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Tue, 6 Apr 1993 08:19:37 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Tue, 6 Apr 1993 08:19:35 +0200 Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (4.1/MSU-2.01) id AA00454; Tue, 6 Apr 93 02:21:00 EDT From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <9304060621.AA00454@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Compile onn RS/6000 ?? To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1993 02:20:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 240 Status: RO I am having absolutely no luck on compiling crossfire on an RS/6000 560, running AIX 3.2.3, does anyone have a magic config file(s) that could help me out? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 5 12:01:41 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 22:02:41 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 22:02:28 +0200 Received: by chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu (4.1/server2.4) id AA03177; Mon, 5 Apr 93 16:01:41 EDT Message-Id: <9304052001.AA03177@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 93 16:01:41 EDT From: Christopher Carpinello To: mta@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Markku Jarvinen) Cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: SIMPLE_PARTY_SYSTEM References: <9304031919.AA12503@modeemi.cs.tut.fi> Status: RO Markku Jarvinen writes: > Just define it in config. After that you have simple system where you > set up parties by 'party xxx' where xxx is any number. Then you have > 'party say', 'party who' which are obvious. The exp is divided among > members, something like you get your_level+4 shares of killed monsters, > and the killer keeps the extra that cannot be shared. > > - Markku > > P.S. 'party leave' is the way of leaving parties I haven't had the time to look closely at this so I'll ask: does the simple party system make sure that all party members are in the same map before dividing up experience? Otherwise, it would be possible for a newbie to join a wyvern hunting party, hang around in town (map #4) and gain experience without doing a thing.... #chris From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 5 05:56:02 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 19:56:50 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from romeo.cs.colorado.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 19:56:36 +0200 Received: from localhost by romeo.cs.Colorado.EDU with SMTP id AA08281 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 5 Apr 1993 11:56:05 -0600 Message-Id: <199304051756.AA08281@romeo.cs.Colorado.EDU> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: some comments... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Apr 1993 10:56:45 +0200." <9304020856.AA23503@herzberg.si.hhs.nl> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1993 11:56:02 -0600 From: Drew Eckhardt Status: RO -------- The following message concerns : - crossfire on low-end computers. Well, to run crossfire on low-end computers (like amiga's and ibm's), the code must be changed acordingly. Or you can upgrade the operating system and Windowing environment, to Unix and X (Linux / XFree86 are free and work great on IBM's, and Linux is being ported to the Amiga). But, even then the heavy floating point usage in the timing routines (crossfire .88.4 was the last I looked at, has this changed?) will kill performance without a FPU. I played around with it for a little while (sorry, never got it debugged), and found that on a 386-33 (no 387), the change from floating to fixed point produced a remarkable performance improvement, as in crossfire went from virtually unplayable due to slowness to far too fast. From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 5 15:34:18 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 11:37:23 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from modeemi.cs.tut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 11:37:20 +0200 Received: by modeemi.cs.tut.fi (4.1/vissykola) id AA22026; Mon, 5 Apr 93 12:34:18 +0300 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 93 12:34:18 +0300 From: anipa@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) Message-Id: <9304050934.AA22026@modeemi.cs.tut.fi> To: Charles Henrich Cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: SIMPLE_PARTY_SYSTEM References: <9304022343.AA08324@netsun.cl.msu.edu> Status: RO Charles Henrich writes: > Howdy, after poking around the source awhile I noticed SIMPLE_PARTY_SYSTEM > #ifdef's all over the place. Is this an "in-the-works" option, or is it > usable? If so how do I use it? Be warned that the SIMPLE_PARTY_SYSTEM that is with the version .2 bugs slightly. It does not kick you out of the party when you die/quit and start creating a new character. I think that I sent patches for that to Frank some time ago thou, so it should be fixed in the next release. ++Anipa From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 5 05:46:13 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 03:46:15 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from gjalp.ifi.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 03:46:14 +0200 From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme Received: by gjalp.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 03:46:13 +0200 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 03:46:13 +0200 Message-Id: <199304050146.AAgjalp.ifi.uio.no04333@gjalp.ifi.uio.no> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no In-Reply-To: Rupert G. Goldie's message of Mon, 5 Apr 1993 10:15:07 +1000 <199304050015.AA19202@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au> Subject: Re: Idea Status: RO Rupert thinks [I include it all because reportedly many didn't receive this]: > Lots of crossfire depends upon the players having to finish some > goal in order to proceed. This is a good thing, and the work that a > couple of people are reporting they are doing with unique keys will > further that aim. If, however, players can teleport randomly (or > pass through walls etc) then all of the puzzles, quests etc are > thrown out the window. Using no_magic is _not_ the solution as we > will end up with most of the map areas being no_magic, which is not > a desirable situation. Maybe we could allow the map-object (ie. the first object in the .oo-file) to contain modifiers. Ie., if it had no_magic, all objects contained in that map would get that as a default value. I know this might slow down map-loading, especially if we allowed general modifiers - but I can't think of any other attribute which would make sense on a global sense. Anyway, it's an idea. Kjetil T. From owner-crossfire Mon Apr 5 20:15:07 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 02:15:58 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (aaii_slip.aaii.oz.AU) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 02:15:34 +0200 Received: by yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (5.65c/SMI-4.0/AAII) id AA19202; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 10:15:07 +1000 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 10:15:07 +1000 From: Rupert G. Goldie Message-Id: <199304050015.AA19202@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Idea Status: RO > From: Tero Haatanen > I think, that problem is only partly old maps, since if you make dimension > door inside wall, destination is random, so you could end in the > treasure chamber, even if it's marked as no magic area. > Maybe it would better that dimension door would work so, that count > only affect range, but can't be used going through walls or > random destinations. If random teleport spell is needed, just > make new spell. Only problem with it, is makes mapmaking even > harder, since you could pass most monsters with one spell and > little luck. One solution would be make destination in same area, > which is show with magic mapping spell. Lots of crossfire depends upon the players having to finish some goal in order to proceed. This is a good thing, and the work that a couple of people are reporting they are doing with unique keys will further that aim. If, however, players can teleport randomly (or pass through walls etc) then all of the puzzles, quests etc are thrown out the window. Using no_magic is _not_ the solution as we will end up with most of the map areas being no_magic, which is not a desirable situation. Rupert From owner-crossfire Sun Apr 4 01:19:02 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sat, 3 Apr 1993 21:21:48 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from modeemi.cs.tut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sat, 3 Apr 1993 21:21:46 +0200 Received: by modeemi.cs.tut.fi (4.1/vissykola) id AA12503; Sat, 3 Apr 93 22:19:02 +0300 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 93 22:19:02 +0300 From: mta@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Markku Jarvinen) Message-Id: <9304031919.AA12503@modeemi.cs.tut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, henrich@netsun.cl.msu.edu Subject: Re: SIMPLE_PARTY_SYSTEM Status: RO Just define it in config. After that you have simple system where you set up parties by 'party xxx' where xxx is any number. Then you have 'party say', 'party who' which are obvious. The exp is divided among members, something like you get your_level+4 shares of killed monsters, and the killer keeps the extra that cannot be shared. - Markku P.S. 'party leave' is the way of leaving parties From owner-crossfire Sat Apr 3 16:31:49 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sat, 3 Apr 1993 16:31:51 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sat, 3 Apr 1993 16:31:49 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA22730; Sat, 3 Apr 93 17:31:48 +0300 From: Tero Haatanen Message-Id: <9304031431.AA22730@cc.lut.fi> Subject: Re: Idea To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Sat, 3 Apr 93 17:31:47 EETDST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: RO > What makes dimension door so powerful that most old maps are broken, > is the ability to type a number before casting the spell, to specify > the range. This enables it to jump through solid walls. I think, that problem is only partly old maps, since if you make dimension door inside wall, destination is random, so you could end in the treasure chamber, even if it's marked as no magic area. Maybe it would better that dimension door would work so, that count only affect range, but can't be used going through walls or random destinations. If random teleport spell is needed, just make new spell. Only problem with it, is makes mapmaking even harder, since you could pass most monsters with one spell and little luck. One solution would be make destination in same area, which is show with magic mapping spell. -Tero From owner-crossfire Fri Apr 2 13:43:09 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Sat, 3 Apr 1993 01:43:21 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from netsun.cl.msu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Sat, 3 Apr 1993 01:43:18 +0200 Received: by netsun.cl.msu.edu (4.1/MSU-2.01) id AA08324; Fri, 2 Apr 93 18:43:10 EST From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <9304022343.AA08324@netsun.cl.msu.edu> Subject: SIMPLE_PARTY_SYSTEM To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 18:43:09 EST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: RO Howdy, after poking around the source awhile I noticed SIMPLE_PARTY_SYSTEM #ifdef's all over the place. Is this an "in-the-works" option, or is it usable? If so how do I use it? Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu From owner-crossfire Fri Apr 2 05:21:27 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 23:22:02 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from halcyon.com by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 23:21:56 +0200 Received: by halcyon.com id AA01662 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no); Fri, 2 Apr 1993 13:21:27 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 13:21:27 -0800 From: Jonathan Roy Message-Id: <199304022121.AA01662@halcyon.com> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, mta@modeemi.cs.tut.fi, ninja@halcyon.halcyon.com, tomho@ikp.liu.se Subject: Re: Idea Status: RO Hmm... The players at my school use dimension door to zip all over the place.. Get into a dangerous place, drop a large fireball at your feet, and DD out. Again and again. :) F F Jonathan Roy, of the Free Access Foundation Email: ninja@faf.org A Mail faf@halcyon.com for information, or FTP to halcyon.com: /pub/faf/ F F Vorlons, of the Galactic Bloodshed Development Team GEnie: J.ROY18 "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - _RotJ_ From owner-crossfire Fri Apr 2 10:06:26 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 22:06:12 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from hurricane.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 22:06:00 +0200 Received: by hurricane.cs.odu.edu (4.1/lanleaf2.4) id AA03220; Fri, 2 Apr 93 15:06:26 EST Message-Id: <9304022006.AA03220@hurricane.cs.odu.edu> Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 15:06:26 EST From: Matthew Zeher To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Idea In-Reply-To: <9304011246.AA23704@cc.lut.fi> References: <9304011246.AA23704@cc.lut.fi> Status: RO Tero Haatanen writes: -> > I have an idea: Make it possible to have special conditions for opening -> > doors etc. For example one very special key to open a door (no other keys -> > work), or suchlike. This would also naturally leed to quests to get these -> > special items for example. Dimension door is a problem here, but perhaps -> > its possible to have walls that is not passable with Dimension door? -> -> I had the same idea, and I have almost implementend it :). I test it -> a little more and send patches to Frank, when I have a little time. -> Dimension door isn't any problem, just set no_magic flag on. -> BTW. If someone has has nice bitmaps for doors and keys, I could use -> them. -> -> - Tero This has been implemented here at ODU. When we send out our patches in a couple of weeks it will be included. It works by removeing a specified named item from you inventory and destroying the door. Crossedit will support it also. matt matt@cs.odu.edu From owner-crossfire Fri Apr 2 22:41:50 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 20:41:51 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from yrsa.ifi.uio.no by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 20:41:50 +0200 From: Frank Tore Johansen Received: by yrsa.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 20:41:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199304021841.AAyrsa06372@yrsa.ifi.uio.no> Subject: Re: Idea To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 20:41:50 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9304021656.AA12278@cc.lut.fi> from "Petri Heinil{" at Apr 2, 93 06:56:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1454 Status: RO Petri Heinil{ writes: > David J. Bianco writes: > > Jonathan Roy writes: > > > I'd like Dimension door to only work on open space... Like > > > to get behind those 50 hill giants, let's say. It shouldn't > > > let you jump through rock, doors, etc... At least in my > > > opinion. > > > > >Hmmmm... I don't know about anyone else, but I've > >never been able to jump through anything. Dimension door > >just goes as far as it can until you encounter the > >end of the map or some obstacle (not including water) What makes dimension door so powerful that most old maps are broken, is the ability to type a number before casting the spell, to specify the range. This enables it to jump through solid walls. > That's right, I think. Futher, I think there is bug in water. Not in > dimmension door, but by flying objects. I think they should can fly over > water. And levitation should also work. That is something which has been left broken due to "bug compatibility" 8) Now that the format of the map has changed, that is very likely to change for next version. What will happen, is that all maps will be thrown out, and then the few good maps, after having been changed to fit the new rules (unfortunately unwritten rules as of now 8) will be added again. That annoying variable clash in the pits/traps will also be fixed. I'll probably release a beta-beta-release so that map-makers can fix their maps before the next (beta!) version. -Frank. From owner-crossfire Fri Apr 2 07:26:11 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 19:26:51 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 19:26:48 +0200 Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (4.1/MSU-2.01) id AA00555; Fri, 2 Apr 93 12:26:13 EST From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <9304021726.AA00555@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Death.. To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 12:26:11 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 339 Status: RO Id like to suggest that when a person dies, they dont lose everything, instead they lose 25% of exp's and 1 point of one of the stats (Random). and are restarted at the beginning city with all of their possessions, but only say 5 or 10 hp. Whacha think? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu From owner-crossfire Fri Apr 2 20:56:35 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 18:56:46 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 18:56:43 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA12278; Fri, 2 Apr 93 18:56:35 +0200 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 18:56:35 +0200 From: Petri Heinil{ Message-Id: <9304021656.AA12278@cc.lut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Idea Status: RO >Jonathan Roy writes: > > I'd like Dimension door to only work on open space... Like > > to get behind those 50 hill giants, let's say. It shouldn't > > let you jump through rock, doors, etc... At least in my > > opinion. > > > > F F Jonathan Roy, of the Free Access Foundation Email: ninja@faf.org > > A Mail faf@halcyon.com for information, or FTP to halcyon.com: /pub/faf/ > > F F Vorlons, of the Galactic Bloodshed Development Team GEnie: J.ROY18 > > "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - _RotJ_ >Hmmmm... I don't know about anyone else, but I've >never been able to jump through anything. Dimension door >just goes as far as it can until you encounter the >end of the map or some obstacle (not including water) That's right, I think. Futher, I think there is bug in water. Not in dimmension door, but by flying objects. I think they should can fly over water. And levitation should also work. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // Petri Heinila // email: hevi@lut.fi // // // mail: Ainonkatu 2A // // // 53100 Lappeenranta // // // Finland, Europe // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From owner-crossfire Fri Apr 2 06:09:13 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 18:38:58 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from mist.cs.odu.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 18:38:29 +0200 Received: by mist.cs.odu.edu (4.1/lanleaf2.4) id AA00215; Fri, 2 Apr 93 11:09:13 EST Message-Id: <9304021609.AA00215@mist.cs.odu.edu> Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 11:09:13 EST From: David J. Bianco To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Idea In-Reply-To: <199304020351.AA09378@halcyon.com> References: <199304020351.AA09378@halcyon.com> Status: RO Jonathan Roy writes: > I'd like Dimension door to only work on open space... Like > to get behind those 50 hill giants, let's say. It shouldn't > let you jump through rock, doors, etc... At least in my > opinion. > > F F Jonathan Roy, of the Free Access Foundation Email: ninja@faf.org > A Mail faf@halcyon.com for information, or FTP to halcyon.com: /pub/faf/ > F F Vorlons, of the Galactic Bloodshed Development Team GEnie: J.ROY18 > "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - _RotJ_ Hmmmm... I don't know about anyone else, but I've never been able to jump through anything. Dimension door just goes as far as it can until you encounter the end of the map or some obstacle (not including water) David From owner-crossfire Fri Apr 2 13:30:52 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 09:33:32 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from modeemi.cs.tut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 09:33:30 +0200 Received: by modeemi.cs.tut.fi (4.1/vissykola) id AA03357; Fri, 2 Apr 93 10:30:52 +0300 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 10:30:52 +0300 From: mta@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Markku Jarvinen) Message-Id: <9304020730.AA03357@modeemi.cs.tut.fi> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, ninja@halcyon.halcyon.com, tomho@ikp.liu.se Subject: Re: Idea Status: RO I think there is some misinformation how dimension door works. It does not allow you to jump thru walls, rock or anything that you can't see thru. At least that is how I have used it, so it is easy to take care when designing maps, just few nasty corridors after gates, or making all squares before the door 'no magic' does the trick. Also you cannot dimension door to place which is occupied by monster, so even rats can be used to prevent unwanted uses. Otherwise I think dimension door is quite cool spell, like when you are trapped between wall and monster and want to get out fast. Just my $0.02. - Markku From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 1 11:51:04 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 05:51:16 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from halcyon.com by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 05:51:12 +0200 Received: by halcyon.com id AA09378 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no); Thu, 1 Apr 1993 19:51:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 19:51:04 -0800 From: Jonathan Roy Message-Id: <199304020351.AA09378@halcyon.com> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, tomho@ikp.liu.se Subject: Re: Idea Status: RO I'd like Dimension door to only work on open space... Like to get behind those 50 hill giants, let's say. It shouldn't let you jump through rock, doors, etc... At least in my opinion. F F Jonathan Roy, of the Free Access Foundation Email: ninja@faf.org A Mail faf@halcyon.com for information, or FTP to halcyon.com: /pub/faf/ F F Vorlons, of the Galactic Bloodshed Development Team GEnie: J.ROY18 "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - _RotJ_ From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 1 08:39:11 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 20:41:16 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from sjfc.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 20:41:08 +0200 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 13:39:11 -0500 From: av5410@sjfc.edu (Alex Villamil) Received: by sjfc.edu (5.61/3.1.090690-St. John Fisher College) id AA16309; Thu, 1 Apr 93 13:39:11 -0500 Message-Id: <9304011839.AA16309@sjfc.edu> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Praise Status: RO Hi all, In light of the recent conversations discussing Mr Justers post, I'd just like to say that Crossfire is the best game I've seen for X yet. Frank and the many others who have contributed to crossfire deserve a big pat on the back for the amazing work they've put together. Guys keep up the fantastic work and don't mind the mosquitos buzzing in your ears. Alex From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 1 00:29:53 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 18:30:02 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from phloem.uoregon.edu by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 18:29:58 +0200 Received: from darmok.uoregon.edu by phloem.uoregon.edu (4.1/UofO NetSvc-02/16/93) id AA25402; Thu, 1 Apr 93 08:29:54 PST Received: by darmok.uoregon.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0S) id AA05272; Thu, 1 Apr 93 08:29:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 08:29:53 -0800 From: Jason Fosback Message-Id: <9304011629.AA05272@darmok.uoregon.edu> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: Scott Parks Gourley Subject: Re: fucking fix the fucking bugs! Cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Status: RO > Hello? > > Fucking fix the bugs that we announce. > > This game is fucking stupid if you can't keep any inventory that you've > slaved over to get! > > -Mike "VERY PISSED OFF" Juster > Typically, when a game has a version number that's blow 1.0, as in 0.88 or 0.89, it means that there are a lot of bugs that aren't fixed yet. Rather than being so rediculously upset about it, and jading those people that have put *hours*, *days*, *weeks*, and *months* of their own time into Crossfire, why don't you: 1) Fix the bugs you're encountering 2) Wait until version 1.0 (or later) 3) Stop playing Crossfire and go back to Nethack or Moria I think such a blatant disregard for all of the time and effort that's been put into this game is unacceptable. This game is far from 'stupid', and there are steps you can take to prevent losing your character (e.g., backing up your .pl file??) -jason ______________________________________________________________________ Jason Fosback, User Support Analyst | No sir, I didn't like it ---- University of Oregon ---- | -R&S Internet: jfosback@oregon.uoregon.edu | Star Trek: NeXT mail: jfosback@darmok.uoregon.edu | The NeXT Generation... From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 1 14:46:17 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 14:46:19 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from cc.lut.fi by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 14:46:17 +0200 Received: by cc.lut.fi (5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA23704; Thu, 1 Apr 93 15:46:16 +0300 From: Tero Haatanen Message-Id: <9304011246.AA23704@cc.lut.fi> Subject: Re: Idea To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 15:46:15 EETDST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: RO > I have an idea: Make it possible to have special conditions for opening > doors etc. For example one very special key to open a door (no other keys > work), or suchlike. This would also naturally leed to quests to get these > special items for example. Dimension door is a problem here, but perhaps > its possible to have walls that is not passable with Dimension door? I had the same idea, and I have almost implementend it :). I test it a little more and send patches to Frank, when I have a little time. Dimension door isn't any problem, just set no_magic flag on. BTW. If someone has has nice bitmaps for doors and keys, I could use them. - Tero From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 1 15:31:44 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 14:30:19 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from ikpgw.liu.se by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 14:30:16 +0200 Received: from [130.236.40.12] by ikpgw.liu.se with SMTP (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/IDA-1.2.8.2/LTH) id AA16102; Thu, 1 Apr 93 14:27:51 +0200 Message-Id: <9304011227.AA16102@ikpgw.liu.se> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 14:31:44 +0100 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no From: tomho@IKP.LiU.SE (Tomas H|gstr|m) Subject: Idea Status: RO I have an idea: Make it possible to have special conditions for opening doors etc. For example one very special key to open a door (no other keys work), or suchlike. This would also naturally leed to quests to get these special items for example. Dimension door is a problem here, but perhaps its possible to have walls that is not passable with Dimension door? From owner-crossfire Thu Apr 1 11:55:16 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 09:56:16 +0200 Received: from enst.enst.fr by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 09:56:01 +0200 Received: from ulysse.enst.fr (inf.enst.fr) by enst.enst.fr (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA15059; Thu, 1 Apr 93 09:55:23 +0200 Return-Path: Organization: Ecole Nationale Superieure des Telecommunications, Paris Received: from inf.enst.fr (blizzard) by ulysse.enst.fr (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA00862; Thu, 1 Apr 93 09:55:41 +0200 From: Sylvain Meunier Message-Id: <9304010755.AA00862@ulysse.enst.fr> Subject: Re: fucking fix the fucking bugs! To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 09:55:16 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <4fic9T600Vpa1VQUMh@andrew.cmu.edu> from "Scott Parks Gourley" at Apr 1, 93 00:49:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 662 Status: RO > > Hello? > > Fucking fix the bugs that we announce. > > This game is fucking stupid if you can't keep any inventory that you've > slaved over to get! > > -Mike "VERY PISSED OFF" Juster Don't be so stupid. It's only a game and a freeware game. If you have problems with it, try to correct tehm yourself and post patch for everybody or don't play. We have lot of cratch and we are dissapointed but those who are feed up about cratch go away, other stay. Some people past long time to create and correct this superb game. Yes it's a quiet a damage it crash but bugs are corrected if you are patient. Then wait and see. -- S. Meunier. meunier@inf.enst.fr From owner-crossfire Fri Apr 2 02:29:09 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 08:29:40 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (aaii_slip.aaii.oz.AU) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 08:29:24 +0200 Received: by yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (5.65c/SMI-4.0/AAII) id AA06874; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 16:29:09 +1000 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 16:29:09 +1000 From: Rupert G. Goldie Message-Id: <199304010629.AA06874@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au> To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: fucking fix the fucking bugs! Status: RO > From: Scott Parks Gourley > Hello? > > Fucking fix the bugs that we announce. > > This game is fucking stupid if you can't keep any inventory that you've > slaved over to get! > > -Mike "VERY PISSED OFF" Juster > Jeez. Lose the frigging attitude. Crossfire is developed by people in their limited free time. Frank has poured God knows how many hours to make, what I believe is one of the best freely available games around. Numerous other people have also contributed many hours to add features. Patches are released quite often compared to much other PD software, but Frank isn't just sitting around waiting to instantly hack up a patch for every bug that is found. For Christ's sake it is only a game. If it is so fucking important, fix it yourself, and post the patch to this list. Rupert "Pissed off with every Net dickwad who wants premium service for _free_ software" Goldie From owner-crossfire Wed Mar 28 19:49:19 1993 Received: by ifi.uio.no id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 07:52:35 +0200 Return-Path: Received: from PO4.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by ifi.uio.no with SMTP id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 07:52:08 +0200 Received: by po4.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for crossfire@ifi.uio.no; Thu, 1 Apr 93 00:51:40 EST Received: via switchmail; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 00:51:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from sceptrum.weh.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 00:49:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from sceptrum.weh.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 00:49:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.sceptrum.weh.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax.ul4 via MS.5.6.sceptrum.weh.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax_ul4; Thu, 1 Apr 1993 00:49:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4fic9T600Vpa1VQUMh@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 00:49:19 -0500 (EST) From: Scott Parks Gourley To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: fucking fix the fucking bugs! Status: RO Hello? Fucking fix the bugs that we announce. This game is fucking stupid if you can't keep any inventory that you've slaved over to get! -Mike "VERY PISSED OFF" Juster