From owner-crossfire Sun Jun 30 22:10:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:10:24 +0200 Received: from gateway.targonia.com (targon@gateway.targonia.com [192.187.134.24]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:10:18 +0200 Received: (from targon@localhost) by gateway.targonia.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA13295; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:08:37 -0700 Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:08:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Bristel Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: RE: Problems compiling eutl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO After a bit of work trying to track down the problem compileing the eutl library on my Slackware 3.0 based system(Running the Linux 2.0.0 kernel), I have tracked the problem down to the kernel source. While I am not good enough at fixing these problems to solve the problem myself, this is what I have done to trace the problem. Took a clean Slackware 3.0 system with kernel 1.2.13. Installed eutl cleanly, no problems. deleted the linuxelf-1.2.13 source tree, replaced it with the 2.0.0 source tree, compiled the kernel, and rebooted attempted a new clean compile of eutl, and got the following results: gcc -g -Wall -I../include -c tcplib.c -o tcplib.o In file included from tcplib.h:13, from tcplib.c:11: /usr/include/sys/uio.h:33: redefinition of `struct iovec' tcplib.c: In function `BecomeServer': tcplib.c:225: warning: passing arg 2 of `bind' from incompatible pointer type tcplib.c:226: warning: implicit declaration of function `close' tcplib.c: In function `GetConnection': tcplib.c:264: warning: implicit declaration of function `bcopy' tcplib.c:271: warning: passing arg 2 of `connect' from incompatible pointer typetcplib.c: In function `AcceptConnection': tcplib.c:300: warning: passing arg 2 of `accept' from incompatible pointer type tcplib.c: In function `__DoSendMsg': tcplib.c:345: warning: implicit declaration of function `write' make[1]: *** [tcplib.o] Error 1 I then turned around, replaced the kernel with a backup, and rebooted back into 1.2.13. I did NOT replace the kernel source tree. I got identical results. This leads me to the conclusion that it is the source tree, rather than the kernel itself which is the source of the problem. I will continue to seek the source of this problem, and see what changed from 1.2.13 to 2.0.0(I also had this problem on all kernels from 1.3.45 and later). If anyone has an answer to this, I would appreciate it. David Bristel targon@netcom.com From owner-crossfire Sat Jun 29 02:35:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:35:05 +0200 Received: from gossip.pyramid.com (gossip.pyramid.com [129.214.1.101]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:35:01 +0200 Received: from stealth-news.pyramid.com by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway) id AA02763; Fri, 28 Jun 96 17:34:29 -0700 Received: by stealth.eng.pyramid.com (8.6.12/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration) id RAA15855; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:34:22 -0700 From: "Mark Wedel" Message-Id: <9606281734.ZM15853@stealth.eng.pyramid.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:34:17 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: Re: Future notes and XPM default Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO As Raphael mentioned in his own page, using XPM always has some disadvantages (on low memory xterms, it will just die). Also, if you have black and white, XPM probably looks worse than just standard bitmaps. XPM is also slower, which can be a factor on some machines also. Arguable, we could some logic like (if display is color and display is this machine, use xpm). What I don't like about that is that the behaviour isn't quite as consistent - people see xpm, but when they try to start up something else, they dont. Not sure how big of an issue that is. I know of no major rewrite in crossfires future. To convert to C++ would be a large effort, and should be done as a ground up effort. However, of things that should be done, completion of the client server (at least make it complete enough that you can do everything in the client that you can right now, then working on making it more efficient.) I believe Tero was doing some work on cleaning it up some, not sure exactly if there is any status on that. But looking through that, here are some things from the TODO list that would probably make crossfire better on the RPG side: - Expand the features of parse_message(): Support for state-variables in messages. Support for services (ie, receive item, give different item, or advice) - Fix throw, and make giants throw boulders (medium size) (boulder throwing works, but use a different boulder type) For objects, some assumptions on how far it flies will need to be made. There are of course some other thoughts, but expand on this (idea of quests, so if you complete something, you can come back and get some reward.) Just thinking, however. Client side stuff would be nice to complete. It would then be possible to have AI clientss, so you could form a party with just your own characters, and have the AI at least keep them together (one client, merges multiple views togehter or something.) That alone could make things much more interesting - but first that standard client needs to be done. -- --Mark From owner-crossfire Sat Jun 29 02:18:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:18:46 +0200 Received: from gossip.pyramid.com (gossip.pyramid.com [129.214.1.101]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:18:41 +0200 Received: from stealth-news.pyramid.com by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway) id AA02590; Fri, 28 Jun 96 17:18:08 -0700 Received: by stealth.eng.pyramid.com (8.6.12/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration) id RAA14852; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:18:03 -0700 From: "Mark Wedel" Message-Id: <9606281718.ZM14850@stealth.eng.pyramid.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:18:02 -0700 In-Reply-To: "Ken Woodruff" "CF: RE: proposed docs (longish)" (Jun 28, 10:24am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: CF: RE: proposed docs (longish) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO I will merge responses into several messages into one. Docs: I agree that interface and 'game play' section should be seperate. If it is done with HTML, it is also very easy to create a top index that has a selection for these different pages anyways. Game play specifics: I would argue that anything that a person living in taht world would know about should be mentioned. To some extent, I don't like the idea of someone choosing a class, and then having to find out later on that that isn't the class taht can cast this spell or whatever else. Other obvious stuff should also be in there - if the players want to play without that information and explore for themself, so be it. But some people probably would like to have some idea of what the different things are before they start. HTML vs latex: I am not sure of the quality of the converters - some has send that latex->html isn't very good. But most all web viewers let you print out the HTML file, either as a postscript file (which we could distribute also), or to a printer. IT is not needed to be running a copy of netscape while playing, but you may want to. It certainly depends on the audience. The only reason I installed latex/tex on my home machine was so I could generate the spoiler documentation. I would but that there are a lot of other people out there who don't use latex either. The advantage of html is that is is universal. If a mac or windows client is ever made, they could view the documentation. I would guess that postscript and/or latex viewers are not as readily available on those systems. Long texts and usefullness of text window: The latest client did have scrollbar support - that should at least fix that problem. I haven't bother merging it into the old code - not quite as easy, and I don't have lots of free time. -- --Mark From owner-crossfire Sat Jun 29 03:56:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:56:58 +0200 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (kjetilho@mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:56:55 +0200 Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:56:52 +0200 Message-Id: <199606290156.25381.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> From: "Michael B. Martin" Subject: Re: CF: Ideas for the future Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO > There was talk a while back about making a new game (or rewriting > crossfire in C++, java, etc.). Has anyone persued this endeavor? I have Yes and no. As far as I know, there is no one working on rewriting crossfire in C++ or Java. However, (even better, IMHO) there are people at the University of Nevada at Reno, headed by William Bull, bull@cs.unr.edu, who are working on a more generalized engine for games of this type, written in Java. (You may remember some talk about this on the list last December and January.) They are calling their project "OpenWorld", and here's a little bit of what William Bull had to say about it (I got this on March 6): =>Well our system has developed into much more than Crossfire (as was my =>original intention.) We're not going for the March 31st deadline since =>we're also writing three articles on the topics: Java, OpenWorld, and The =>Unified Method. => =>We've found that a complete rewrite would be much more successful than =>the current system. There aren't enough features for expanding the game =>and in order to offer new features is rather teadious. The system we're =>developing called "OpenWorld" is modularized and well designed out. We're =>using the Unified Method object oriented technique (Booth & Rumbaugh =>1994-96). This will allow us to easily account for weakness in sort and =>long term development. My goal is to allow for a remarkably generic =>development system. (With any luck we'll have a prototype within three to =>four months.) => =>In short, Crossfire won't be in Java by us. It doesn't use to power which =>Java has and isn't very good as a general multi-user gaming environment. =>Hopefully we'll have one out soon. I for one think this has the potential to be far better than crossfire. No offense intended to the wonderful crossfire developers, but it has too many peculiarities ("no, they're features!") to easily expand its basic features. I intend to e-mail Mr. Bull back within a day or two to find out what their current status is now (the above text is almost 4 months old). If there's interest, I could post the response to the crossfire mailing list. For those who really like some of the particular features of crossfire, I recall that Mr. Bull said that it would not be hard to implement a game resembling crossfire using their engine. I am working on learning C++ (with Java to follow) this summer, so I hope to be able to start on making a D&D- or crossfire-like game as soon as they release their code (time restrictions permitting, of course). If anyone else likes this idea, e-mail me and maybe we could get a group project going. Happy gaming! Michael Martin (mbmartin@vt.edu) From owner-crossfire Fri Jun 28 18:14:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:14:26 +0200 Received: from copland.udel.edu (copland.udel.edu [128.175.13.92]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:14:22 +0200 Received: from localhost (flaregun@localhost) by copland.udel.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA27168 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:14:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Phillips Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Crossfire Mailing List Subject: CF: Ideas for the future In-Reply-To: <199606281511.23856.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO There was talk a while back about making a new game (or rewriting crossfire in C++, java, etc.). Has anyone persued this endeavor? I have been thinking a lot lately about making a game like crossfire that doesn't _require_ X as it's GUI (one Xclient with lots of trusting Xservers), has a seperate server and client, requires lower bandwidth (can play over PPP at 14.4kbps), works on PCs (DOS, Win), MACs, Unix/X, but retains some of the quick fighting flavor of crossfire (ala Gauntlet, etc.). Also, I'd really like it to be more of a D&D type games, with quests/missions/adventures. Also, I'd like it to play like a role-playing games, but with tournaments (timed sessions of exploration and solving a particular quest). Players should be able to enter and exit the world and be able to pick up (kinda) where they left off. I'd like the server to maintain all of the game state, and have the game world evolve as people play. There could be new quest opportunities generated on the fly (maybe even relating to particular players, i.e., NPC Lord Dimwitt wants Player Eddie assasinated and is willing to pay handsomely...). The world could change as well... new towns pop up, old dead dungeons go away, new NPCs are generated, new unexplored territory is generated. I like the design of crossfire as a role-playing game. A lot of thought has gone into the whole architecture of the objects in the game. Please, if you know of any projects regarding these kind of games, or are designing a new game similar to the above description, let me know. Thanks, Ed p.s. Great work on Crossfire to all those responsible! +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Ed Phillips University of Delaware (302) 831-6082 | | Associate Systems Programmer, Network and Systems Services | | Public key footprint: 1C D4 AC C2 A3 D5 97 AA DB 3B D8 85 88 E7 40 B8 | | finger -l flaregun@polycut.nss.udel.edu for PGP public key | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-crossfire Fri Jun 28 17:12:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:12:03 +0200 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (kjetilho@mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:11:59 +0200 Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:11:56 +0200 Message-Id: <199606281511.23862.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 16:35:41 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: on-line docs (was Re: CF: proposed docs (longish)) From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Klaus Elsbernd wrote: > Ken Woodruff wrote: > >I also favor more "self-documentation", in which the game itself contains > >descriptive information. For example, why not let the user discover > >for themselves that there are two kinds of magic? We could create > >a variety of beginner's maps which impart this kind of information. > I would support that kind of information within crossfire. [...] > For example there should be a librian, which one coud ask a question > by saying hello to him, paying something and getting the information > (possible in a book). Like > "glowing crystal > results in a book, where such dokumentation is been written in. > I think the altar Mechanism could be used for that. Hmmm... It would probably be easier to have a library defined as a shop, with lots of unpaid books that have a more or less obvious title. That way, the player could enter the library, have a look at the titles of the books, and see if there is anything interesting for him. Of course, he would have to pay the book in order to be allowed to read it, but at least it would be possible for the player to see if a book is potentially interesting before buying it. As in real life, you can enter a library and have a quick look at the books before deciding if you buy one or not. A librarian such as the one that you describe would have to handle many different requests and provide reasonable default replies if the item is unknown to him (the current NPC interaction mechanism would allow that, but it's not very pretty). Also, it would be frustrating for the player to have to pay in order to be allowed to talk to him, and then get no interesting information. The library as I describe it could be one of the buildings in the default map (so that new players find it easily) and it would contain the same kind of books as in the shops, except that the topic of these books would be clearly identified, i.e. "Book of Glowing Crystal" or "Introduction to spells and prayers". Also, contrary to the random books that you find in the shops, these ones would always be available. If there are enough books in this library, it could be interesting to name different alleys in the library, such as "Introduction" for basic CrossFire skills, "Spells and prayers", "Artifacts" with books describing briefly some artifacts (before the player gets them, so he would start looking for them), and so on. By the way, I don't like the current system with the books that you find in the shops: a player (especially a beginner) has no idea of what is in the book before he buys it. The random author names and the various "supports" (book/letter/script/encyclopedia/...) add to the confusion. IMHO, the fact that you don't know what you are going to buy adds to the frustration rather than to the excitement. When you get a spellbook (or a tome/treatise/...), you know at least what you can expect to learn from it. I think that the principle of finding the documentation about the game in books and letters is a very good idea, but I don't like the way it is implemented for the moment. It would be much better if you could tell (in an obvious way, so that beginners are not confused) if the book that you are going to buy contains: - a description of the properties of some creatures (bestiary) - some informations about a God and its powers or ennemies - the starting point for a quest ("In the mountains up North, I found...") - a list of spells or prayers that belong to a Path - a description of an artifact - ... It should be possible to know what kind of information you will get by looking at the title of the book. For example, an encyclopedia could always be a bestiary and a letter or a script could always contain some hints about a quest. And the author names should not be random, so that you do not buy the same book twice if you have already read it (that happened to me several times and it is rather annoying - this doesn't happen with the spell books). Or maybe the support (book or letter or ...) could be more or less random, such as for the spellbooks, but the author name would tell what is in the book. In this latter solution, the names have to be very obvious, such as "An encyclopedia of Gurk the zoologist" or "A letter of Gnarg the priest". That would not prevent duplicates, but it would at least be better than the current system. Last comment: the current text window limits the usefullness of long text descriptions. The "true" client/server system should hopefully make this easier to customize, and I hope that the current pseudo-client system will be definitely discarded in one of the future distributions. Did anybody read this far? Wow! -Raphael From owner-crossfire Fri Jun 28 17:11:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:11:33 +0200 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (kjetilho@mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:11:30 +0200 Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:11:27 +0200 Message-Id: <199606281511.23856.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:36:41 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: lib/def_help, lib/motd, default map and XPM From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Speaking about the docs in my previous message reminded me of several things that I wanted to post on this list, about the default distribution. First, a very small change: I suggest replacing the help file lib/def_help by this, which is almost the same but a bit more verbose: ---------- cut here ---------- How to use help: 'help topics (list of help topics) 'help commands (list of valid commands) 'help (help on a topic or command) ---------- cut here ---------- Also, here is an excerpt from the lib/motd file that I installed on my server. It is intended to help the people who start CrossFire or the CrossFire client because they found it in a "games" directory but don't know what to do with it. It could be useful to put something similar in the default distribution, because it could also help the people who compile the game for the first time and didn't take the time to read the docs. ---------- cut here ---------- ----------------------------------------------- *** Welcome to Crossfire *** After you have created your character, use the arrows to move around. The command prompt can be accessed by typing ' (single quote). Useful commands are 'help, 'help keys, 'scroll, 'quit. ----------------------------------------------- ---------- cut here ---------- Another thing that would IMHO be useful for first-time installations is to provide a default file lib/maps/city/city. It would a very simple map with no exits and a prominent sign saying: "Your installation of CrossFire was succesful, but you did not install the maps. Please install the contents of crossfire-*.maps.tar.gz in the lib/maps directory.". That may sound a bit stupid, but it could help the people who want to check that CrossFire was compiled and installed successfully before extracting the (rather big) maps archive. Of course, that default map would be overwritten by the one in the maps archive, when you install the maps. One last thing that could make the first impression better for new users... I know that it could be controversial, but what about making XPM the default option? The nice, colorful XPM pixmaps are more attractive than the default font or pixmaps. If "-xpm" is the default and is not needed anymore, then there should be a "-noxpm" or "-font" option. That may not be a good thing when playing over the Internet (because of the extra bandwidth required by the XPM pixmaps) or on terminals that are low on memory, but most people discover CrossFire by trying to set up their own server and their first impression counts a lot. And XPM looks much better. -Raphael From owner-crossfire Fri Jun 28 17:10:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:10:49 +0200 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (kjetilho@mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:10:46 +0200 Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:10:43 +0200 Message-Id: <199606281510.23850.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:13:00 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: HTML for docs? (was Re: CF: proposed docs (longish)) From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Klaus Elsbernd wrote: > Mark Wedel wrote: > > Might I suggest that HTML might be better than latex/postscript? [...] > > I would vote against html. I instead suggest {la}tex2html, to convert > the documents to html. The conversion from TeX or LaTeX to HTML is not very good, especially if you want to have nice tables and color images in your documentation. Let's face it: nowadays, many more people will be able to read HTML files than LaTeX or PostScript files. Also, as Mark mentioned, it will then be easy to put the docs on a WWW server, which could be very useful. I suspect (and hope) that several people who have been reluctant at updating the docs for CrossFire because they don't know TeX or LaTeX will prefer to edit HTML docs. Mind you, I have been using LaTeX for years and I like it (very good for writing technical reports) but now I think that HTML is more appropriate for documents that are distributed on the Internet. If the primary format for all docs is HTML, we should also provide a text-only version (or a PostScript version) for those who don't have a WWW browser. Fortunately, this is very easy to do with Lynx, or even with Netscape: load the HTML file, select "Save As..." and choose text format; or select "Print..." and print to a PostScript file. Is anybody still against that? :-) -Raphael * From owner-crossfire Fri Jun 28 14:07:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:07:27 +0200 Received: from uni-kl.de (mmdf@stepsun.uni-kl.de [131.246.136.50]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:07:23 +0200 Received: from corp-200.dfki.uni-kl.de by stepsun.uni-kl.de id aa17290; 28 Jun 96 14:06 MET DST Received: from corp-201.dfki.uni-kl.de (root@corp-201 [131.246.241.106]) by corp-200.dfki.uni-kl.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA11530 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:06:55 +0200 (MET DST) Organization: DFKI Kaiserslautern GmbH, D 67663 Kaiserslautern Received: from localhost (elsbernd@isg-201 [131.246.241.71]) by corp-201.dfki.uni-kl.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18271; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:06:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606281206.OAA18271@corp-201.dfki.uni-kl.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no cc: elsbernd@dfki.uni-kl.de Subject: Re: CF: proposed docs (longish) X-url: http://www.dfki.uni-kl.de/~elsbernd/elsbernd.html X-face: $M>Bn@FmY_i=WI\TEedu:D?W-?1t#J|YJ(jfuT-@,!K=ADK?n<}T[j65V<%d/r46~0b[oXI <\;T\,vrg#=BMNs)z$I2PI5K_Qo(+k2~sC5X&(?ZX~y1qu(>^$Ey75zK@eN5@lJ39v"9_sP9UeHr$, 9;KU6I$G|5[[%m"Tl[_KvBi+E?WGKU%8=LazP}`uM4$zus8.RKRz"v4>\8sk3#'h6"CK In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jun 1996 20:08:06 MET DST." <9606252008.ZM13102@stealth.eng.pyramid.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:06:03 +0200 From: Klaus Elsbernd Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Mark Wedel wrote: > > Might I suggest that HTML might be better than latex/postscript? Main > advantages being that it would then be very easy to put docs in a web > page (which can be very useful, since people connecting may not necesssary > be on hte same machine/network as the server, and thus can't get the local > source.) Also, more people probably have HTML viewing tools than postscript > tools and/or more people know it (I am one such case - I am somewhat literate > in HTML, but not in latex/tex). > I would vote against html. I instead suggest {la}tex2html, to convert the documents to html. I think, getting a printed manual (from TeX/postscript} output would be more valuable. When I play crossfire, I have the documentation near the keybord for fast looking. I don't have the time to start a www-browser, for reading the document. Beside that, I play on an old sun3/260 or sun3/60, which hasn't enough resources to start a WWW-browser, when playing. Although, there is no netscape available. Only mosaic (I hate those html-pages, which can only be displayed using netscape). Ken Woodruff wrote: >I also favor more "self-documentation", in which the game itself contains >descriptive information. For example, why not let the user discover >for themselves that there are two kinds of magic? We could create >a variety of beginner's maps which impart this kind of information. I would support that kind of information within crossfire. Right now, I checked the archetypes-file and the program, to examine the behavior of the power_crystal. If one find that crystal, it would be nice, to go to a library and ask for the features of that crystal. For example there should be a librian, which one coud ask a question by saying hello to him, paying something and getting the information (possible in a book). Like "glowing crystal results in a book, where such dokumentation is been written in. I think the altar Mechanism could be used for that. MfG Klaus From owner-crossfire Fri Jun 28 13:41:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:41:17 +0200 Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:41:04 +0200 Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (smurf@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA11837; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 04:41:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199606281141.EAA11837@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Ken Woodruff" cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: CF: RE: proposed docs (longish) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:24:47 GMT." Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 04:41:01 -0700 From: Scott MacFiggen Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO >to a server, how to move around, how to apply an object. Fill a >library map with books containing such information as "tips for >fighting dragons", or "more mana made easy". Don't forget, 'Make Money Fast'. -Scott From owner-crossfire Fri Jun 28 12:26:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:26:38 +0200 Received: from upsmot01.msn.com (upsmot01.msn.com [204.95.110.78]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:26:34 +0200 Received: from upmajb04.msn.com ([204.95.110.81]) by upsmot01.msn.com (8.6.8.1/Configuration 4) with SMTP id DAA21522 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 03:18:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 10:24:47 UT From: "Ken Woodruff" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: RE: proposed docs (longish) Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Mark wrote: > Might I suggest that HTML might be better than latex/postscript? I second this opinion. Modern HTML viewers provide formatting and printing which is nearly as good as TeX, and the advantages in terms of accessibility are enormous. There is also an aesthetic advantage, since you can imbed color images (such as screen shots to illustrate a point). As for the structure of the documentation, I essentially agree with your outline, but suggest that we clearly separate "reference" sections, such as how the user interface works, and "game play" sections, such as the kinds of magic, etc. These will need to change independently of one another, especially as new clients are developed. I also favor more "self-documentation", in which the game itself contains descriptive information. For example, why not let the user discover for themselves that there are two kinds of magic? We could create a variety of beginner's maps which impart this kind of information. This would allow the external documentation to focus only on the most basic information - how to start the game, how to connect to a server, how to move around, how to apply an object. Fill a library map with books containing such information as "tips for fighting dragons", or "more mana made easy". --Ken From owner-crossfire Wed Jun 26 05:08:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 05:08:47 +0200 Received: from gossip.pyramid.com (gossip.pyramid.com [129.214.1.101]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 05:08:43 +0200 Received: from stealth-news.pyramid.com by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway) id AA11559; Tue, 25 Jun 96 20:08:11 -0700 Received: by stealth.eng.pyramid.com (8.6.12/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration) id UAA13105; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 20:08:07 -0700 From: "Mark Wedel" Message-Id: <9606252008.ZM13102@stealth.eng.pyramid.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 20:08:06 -0700 In-Reply-To: Brian Thomas "CF: proposed docs (longish)" (Jun 25, 2:53am) References: <199606250653.CAA00298@xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Thomas , crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: CF: proposed docs (longish) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO On Jun 25, 2:53am, Brian Thomas wrote: > Subject: CF: proposed docs (longish) > > Hi all, > > I would like to propose some new documentation for CF. Comments > on the contents (add/delete/??) are encouraged. I have 3 documents > in mind, respectively the 1st and 2nd are for players and the 3rd > is an update to the developers document -- crossfire.doc. In terms > of format, I plan some sort of image-embedded postscript (latex) > layout for the 1st (and 2nd?) document(s) and continue to use an > ascii document for crossfire.doc. Below I give my philosophical > agenda and a potential outline (and/or changes) for each. > Might I suggest that HTML might be better than latex/postscript? Main advantages being that it would then be very easy to put docs in a web page (which can be very useful, since people connecting may not necesssary be on hte same machine/network as the server, and thus can't get the local source.) Also, more people probably have HTML viewing tools than postscript tools and/or more people know it (I am one such case - I am somewhat literate in HTML, but not in latex/tex). > > > ******************************************************************* > ******************************************************************* > Document Uno -- CF Player's Handbook > ------------------------------------ > > IV. Hints for playing CF. > > Places to visit/things to do at early/medium levels (eg > go to the "basic house", "newbie tower", buy some real > armour, buy/learn some spells). Save your character often > on servers, etc. Reading books for server-specific changes. > Strategies for minimizing death and gaining exp. Save a > load--change your money at the bank..etc. In theory, frequent character saving shouldn't be needed that much. I would hope that if crashes are still a problem, people have compiled in the various options that do automatic backup saves. Other than that, the doc sounds fine. I actually started a little work on such a doc, but didn't get very far until time constraints hit me (I was doing an HTML version, so I could just put it on a web server and let anyone access it..) Some other tips you might want to add are things like using the pickup command to only get the stuff you want, using the weight of items to better guess what they might be, find out if stuff is cursed/magic before doing an identify, etc. Stuff that may not be really obvious, but can make the game easier. > ******************************************************************* > ******************************************************************* > > Document Dos -- "Tome of magic" and "Book of Prayers". > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Lets update this w/ new spells and changes to older ones. > I know someone started work on documenting the spells - actually send me the base format he was using. Never got a completed list however (or at least that I recall.) But I do agree, an updated spell list would be a good thing. > ******************************************************************* > ******************************************************************* > > Document Tres -- "crossfire.doc" reborn. > ---------------------------------------- > > Edit the current crossfire.doc. Merge in notes from skills_dev.doc, > Multigod.doc, and update current notes. Also include information > on how to use the check_inv, moodfloor archetypes. Hints on using > the editor (?) What would probably be useful is one doc (maybe archetype.doc) which describes meanings for all the various fields in the various archetypes - certain fields have different meanings for different items. crossfire.doc already does this for some of hte items, but not all. Using the editor might be done better as its own doc. While archetype fields certainly might be chagned in the editor, the doc on the editor probably should not say anything much more than how to do that, and then refer to the other doc on specific things that you may want changed. It is certain that all these docs don't need to be done by the same person. -- --Mark From owner-crossfire Tue Jun 25 13:48:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 13:48:31 +0200 Received: from relay.Ieunet.ie (relay.Ieunet.ie [192.111.39.1]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 13:48:24 +0200 Received: from euristix.ie by relay.Ieunet.ie via Ieunet with UUCP id aa18826; 25 Jun 96 12:43 +0100 Received: from euristix.ie by eurist with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #10) id m0uYWDw-000DF4C; Tue, 25 Jun 96 12:24 BST Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.6 3/24/96 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: CF: proposed docs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:53:23 EDT." <199606250653.CAA00298@xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov> X-uri: http://mbmartin.bevc.blacksburg.va.us/~paulh Path: news.msn.com!msn.com Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 12:23:58 +0100 From: Paul Hicks Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO On Tue 25 June, Brian Thomas said: > ... Comments > on the contents (add/delete/??) are encouraged... > > ******************************************************************* > ******************************************************************* > Document Uno -- CF Player's Handbook > ------------------------------------ ... > V. Appendices > > A. List of player commands (and desc of each) > > B. List of player spells (by level/type. Refer to other doc > for full description) > And of course (given the relative frequency of questions about it on this list): C. List of servers/how to find a list of servers, how to connect to a server (all methods), how to set up a server, crossfire protocols/etiquette (re. player killing, lag etc.). This all sounds great. If you have a small section that you want to delegate (ploughing through spells, player etiquette, format of output from commands like "maps", "skills", etc.) then I'll help. (Don't tell my boss, I'm supposed to be busy :). Paul -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Hicks | E-mail: paulh@euristix.ie Phone: +353-1-2884788 | Fax: +353-1-2885362 | URL: http://mbmartin.bevc.blacksburg.va.us/~paulh From owner-crossfire Tue Jun 25 08:54:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 08:54:33 +0200 Received: from xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov (xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.126.216]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 08:54:29 +0200 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov (LHEA9504/950407.s1) id CAA00298; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:53:23 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:53:23 -0400 From: Brian Thomas Message-Id: <199606250653.CAA00298@xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: proposed docs (longish) Cc: thomas@xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Hi all, I would like to propose some new documentation for CF. Comments on the contents (add/delete/??) are encouraged. I have 3 documents in mind, respectively the 1st and 2nd are for players and the 3rd is an update to the developers document -- crossfire.doc. In terms of format, I plan some sort of image-embedded postscript (latex) layout for the 1st (and 2nd?) document(s) and continue to use an ascii document for crossfire.doc. Below I give my philosophical agenda and a potential outline (and/or changes) for each. -b.t. ******************************************************************* ******************************************************************* Document Uno -- CF Player's Handbook ------------------------------------ The main thrust of this document will be to initiate new players into CF, hopefully making the learning curve smoother. Information should be sufficiently generalized so that the document only needs minimal updating between versions. Some information of use to more advanced players could be included. Outline for Player's Handbook I. Introduction -- Quick desc of CF, whats in the handbook, suggested things to read first (ie recipe to startout). Mention crossfire mailing lists (where you can find help, and report bugs..). II. Character Generation -- Steps to create a character, choosing a character (table of characters, like spoiler, but outline equip and skills too), hints on character selection (ie style of play fits what character type). III. Playing CF -- A. Basics -- How to move, how to fight, how to get help, how to use items (weild/wear/eat/etc), how to cast spells/prayers, how to shoot a bow. How to buy things. How to talk to other players/NPCs. How to exit the game gracefully. B. Skills and Experience -- How to use skills (eg stealing, id skills, reading, hiding, movement skills, oratory, and singing). About gaining experience and advancing in levels. What does "score" mean. C. About Combat -- Attacktypes, immunities/vuln/protected status. Armour class, weapon class, armour, speed (move/weapon), hitpoints, death. Skills you need to fight. How worn armour effects movement/ speed. D. About Magic -- The 2 types of magic: spells/prayers. How to recover grace and mana. Praying to a god/becoming a worshipper. How gods and magic items can influence magic casting (eg magic paths). Special prayers you need to know about. What skills you need to cast magic/use rods/wands/etc. Learning spells/prayers. E. Grabbag of more advanced stuff -- Binding commands/changing key definitions. Using invoke. The simple party system. (if ALCHEMY is accepted...how to use a cauldron to make items) IV. Hints for playing CF. Places to visit/things to do at early/medium levels (eg go to the "basic house", "newbie tower", buy some real armour, buy/learn some spells). Save your character often on servers, etc. Reading books for server-specific changes. Strategies for minimizing death and gaining exp. Save a load--change your money at the bank..etc. V. Appendices A. List of player commands (and desc of each) B. List of player spells (by level/type. Refer to other doc for full description) ******************************************************************* ******************************************************************* Document Dos -- "Tome of magic" and "Book of Prayers". ------------------------------------------------------ Lets update this w/ new spells and changes to older ones. ******************************************************************* ******************************************************************* Document Tres -- "crossfire.doc" reborn. ---------------------------------------- Edit the current crossfire.doc. Merge in notes from skills_dev.doc, Multigod.doc, and update current notes. Also include information on how to use the check_inv, moodfloor archetypes. Hints on using the editor (?) From owner-crossfire Tue Jun 25 02:11:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:11:33 +0200 Received: from gossip.pyramid.com (gossip.pyramid.com [129.214.1.101]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:11:28 +0200 Received: from stealth-news.pyramid.com by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway) id AA17750; Mon, 24 Jun 96 17:10:55 -0700 Received: by stealth.eng.pyramid.com (8.6.12/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration) id RAA01698; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 17:10:46 -0700 From: "Mark Wedel" Message-Id: <9606241710.ZM1696@stealth.eng.pyramid.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 17:10:45 -0700 In-Reply-To: Florian Beck "CF: Map Generation" (Jun 21, 4:15am) References: <199606240047.15428.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Florian Beck , crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: CF: Map Generation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO On Jun 21, 4:15am, Florian Beck wrote: > Subject: CF: Map Generation > Hi! > > - I like the library and the alchemy patch. But bevore putting them > into my maps: Will they be part of the next version? Will they be modifed? > Will I be able to use the alchemy archetypes? > I plan to put those patches in the upcoming release (hopefully be out in a week or so. I think I said this once before, but a hard drive failure put a bit of a delay on things.) > - I'd like to make some maps which have less hack'and slay but mory > "story". What'd you say? Perhaps that's not "crossfire-style". > These are just fine. Hack and Slash maps tend to be the most common because they are the easiest to make (make a few rooms, put a few monsters in, and your done.) I find the maps with some story more interesting myself. > - Archetypes: The Documentations sounds like "If it's not really, > really necesary - don't make own archetypes. Understandable, as they > won't be part of the distribution. > Still, I'm doing some ;-) They houses are in need of some more furniture > (e.g kitchen items), IMHO. That statement is more on the basis that if you are just creating a tougher wyvern, you don't need an archetype to do it. You should only really need a new archetype if you are also adding new images. It also depends on how much use it gets. If it is a common object that will be generally useful, and new archetype is a good idea. If it is a special monster/item for a dungeon, a new archetype is not all that useful. > That are simple archetyoes, but: > > * I first did the XPM-Format; I'm no artist, but they are O.K. Then I save > them as XBM - but that just looks VERY ugly, so I have to recreate them. > Is there a better way? Starting with XBM tends to work best. Backwards conversion is difficult, because most programs will try to dither them (which makes them look terrible.) You could try something like XV or maybe the ppm package so that you can make sure they are not dithered, but in that case, dark colors are assumed black, light colors white - this still may not give the desired result. In any conversion, there will certainly be some touchup required. With this in mind, it may not be that more difficult to just redraw them. > * There is one documentation file which does a partial rundown of the > archetype attributes. Can I get a complete rundown without actually > digging throgh the source? There is no more written documentation than what is in the docs file. If you have questions, you can send it to the list, and some of us might know the answer from memory or working on it. > > - What I'd really like would be enhanced interaction with NPC's. That is always talked about, but no one has yet done anything to improve the NPC language. Being able to take/give things and states is a nice idea. I wonder if it is worth it to try to expand the existing one, or just grab some existing parsing language out there and use that instead (save some coding effort..) -- --Mark From owner-crossfire Mon Jun 24 09:54:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:54:13 +0200 Received: from xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov (xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.126.216]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:54:09 +0200 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov (LHEA9504/950407.s1) id DAA17614; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 03:53:12 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 03:53:12 -0400 From: Brian Thomas Message-Id: <199606240753.DAA17614@xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, fb@ue801di.lrz-muenchen.de Subject: Re: CF: Map Generation Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO > From: Florian Beck writes: > > Now what I want to know: > > - I'd like to make some maps which have less hack'and slay but mory > "story". What'd you say? Perhaps that's not "crossfire-style". > Id think that this would be great. My personal opinion is that more "interesting" and "functional" maps are needed besides shops, the bank and area's where monsters reside. In maps I have made, I created apartment buildings for players (w/ unique keys), banks w/ deposit boxes. More could be done; Ive spend most of my free time coding though, so my map making efforts have dropped to nil. One person whose maps I admire (but arent yet in distribution) are from Kundi Xue. He put together some pretty good high level maps at berkeley (try them out on the server). He has stuff like theives guild (you can join), special shops, quests, and other neat stuff. Hopefully, CF 0.92.5 will have these in them. > - Archetypes: The Documentations sounds like "If it's not really, > really necesary - don't make own archetypes. Understandable, as they > won't be part of the distribution. > Still, I'm doing some ;-) They houses are in need of some more furniture > (e.g kitchen items), IMHO. > That are simple archetyoes, but: > > * I first did the XPM-Format; I'm no artist, but they are O.K. Then I save > them as XBM - but that just looks VERY ugly, so I have to recreate them. > Is there a better way? Not that Im aware off. I suggest making the XBM maps *first*; then colorize/change for XPM version. I get better results this way. > * There is one documentation file which does a partial rundown of the > archetype attributes. Can I get a complete rundown without actually > digging throgh the source? > No. This is one aspect of the documentation that I am looking into. > - What I'd really like would be enhanced interaction with NPC's. Oh YES! I have this idea in my notes too. I think the unique-items code might be recycled to make this work. This would really open up the interaction between players and NPC's. But care will have to be taken to make it backward compatible w/ older maps (and to not make it too complex to create NPC's who remember you and answer appropriately). I would suggest 3 status levels for NPC reaction to players: nuetral, friendly, and enemy. Of course, we flag all NPC as "nuetral" until the player changes that with appropriate action. > > - I'd like to define EVENTS > Simple example: When I enter a room: "The red dragons laughs at you" > might be fine; but it's quite ridiculous after I've killed him > Probably that already can be done somehow (as altars can be trggerd only > once) - but how? > Im a little confused on what you mean here.. you can make a room "talk" to the player by using the "talk" archetype. Just place it in the intrance square; alternatively, you can specify a msg to be sent to the player in the exit archetype that contects to the map just being entered. > - Are there plans regarding the skill system? > I think it's not bad, but it could be expanded, couldn't it? > -- I would like to see the following changes to skills (and, if I get the time, I will do this): - special attacks for weapons. For example, sai can be used to disarm an opponent, axe can chop open a door, mace can destroy worn armour. Also, some magical weapons should have attacks (cf. vorpal sword); but this would require a bit more coding effort. - fix up the throwing code (make a throwing skill). Potions should effect the creature that they hit, also, we can allow items like lanterns, torches to catch hit creature on fire. - fix the oratory and singing skills. Right now, they are too wimpy to be of much use. Regards, -b.t. From owner-crossfire Sun Jun 23 19:04:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 19:04:41 +0200 Received: from roope.top.tkukoulu.fi (root@roope.top.tkukoulu.fi [192.103.98.2]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 19:04:38 +0200 Received: by roope.top.tkukoulu.fi id <79903>; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 19:55:43 +0200 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 19:55:28 +0300 (EET DST) From: Tero Pelander Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Paola.Caluri@CSELT.STET.IT cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: CF: how to connect to a crossfire server.... In-Reply-To: <01I626F1E96Q004UKN@POSTAL.CSELT.STET.IT> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 Paola.Caluri@CSELT.STET.IT wrote: > I'm sorry to bother you all but I'd like to know how is it possible to play > crossfire on a server recheable by internet. (Last updated ... 04 Sep 95) http://www.cm.cf.ac.uk/Crossfire/servers.html You need a server that is relatively close to you. (That is small round-trip time and minimal packet loss.) From owner-crossfire Mon Jun 24 02:48:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 02:48:04 +0200 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (kjetilho@mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 02:48:01 +0200 Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 02:47:58 +0200 Message-Id: <199606240047.15428.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> From: Florian Beck Subject: CF: Map Generation Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 04:15:11 -0700 (MST) Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Hi! After haveing played with crossfire for some time I recently have found the skill-patch. And what a surprisr - my level 14 mage eventually got more than 10 mana points ;-) So now I have Crossfire 0.92.4; and with the skill patch, the library patch and the alchemy patch, a good game became even better. As playing is only half the fun I began map-creating Now what I want to know: - I like the library and the alchemy patch. But bevore putting them into my maps: Will they be part of the next version? Will they be modifed? Will I be able to use the alchemy archetypes? - I'd like to make some maps which have less hack'and slay but mory "story". What'd you say? Perhaps that's not "crossfire-style". - Archetypes: The Documentations sounds like "If it's not really, really necesary - don't make own archetypes. Understandable, as they won't be part of the distribution. Still, I'm doing some ;-) They houses are in need of some more furniture (e.g kitchen items), IMHO. That are simple archetyoes, but: * I first did the XPM-Format; I'm no artist, but they are O.K. Then I save them as XBM - but that just looks VERY ugly, so I have to recreate them. Is there a better way? * There is one documentation file which does a partial rundown of the archetype attributes. Can I get a complete rundown without actually digging throgh the source? - What I'd really like would be enhanced interaction with NPC's. * I want them to remember me * I's like a converation tree like that: @match open|Open { Do you have the password? @match Yes|yes { What is it? @match sesame { Right1 @connect 1 } @match * { Thats wrong! } } @match * { Then you can't pass } } @match * What do you want? * I'd like to trigger something in a conversation. Thyt can partly be emulated by magic_ear, but not completly. - I'd like to define EVENTS Simple example: When I enter a room: "The red dragons laughs at you" might be fine; but it's quite ridiculous after I've killed him Probably that already can be done somehow (as altars can be trggerd only once) - but how? - Are there plans regarding the skill system? I think it's not bad, but it could be expanded, couldn't it? -- florian : http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~h729ihqu/ -------- : http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~h729ihqu/Crow.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- I value kindness to human beings first of all, and kindness to animals. I don't respect the law; I have a total irreverence for anything connected with society except that which makes the roads safer, the beer stronger, the food cheaper, and old men and women warmer in the winter, and happier in the summer. -- Brendan Behan From owner-crossfire Wed Jun 19 20:11:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:11:28 +0200 Received: from xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov (xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.126.216]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:11:20 +0200 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov (LHEA9504/950407.s1) id OAA15550; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:07:41 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:07:41 -0400 From: Brian Thomas Message-Id: <199606191807.OAA15550@xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: mwedel@pyramid.com, thomas@xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov, elsbernd@dfki.uni-kl.de Subject: CF: Re: Bug in crossfire-0.92.4 Cc: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO > From: Klaus Elsbernd writes: > > ps: Brian: what about the problem, that dragon-steaks have no weight, but > are as valueable as food? > Hmm. Dragon-steaks are now type FLESH rather than type FOOD (under the alchemy code). This means that the 'weight' value is a percentage of the overall creature weight. A heavy dragon is going to produce a large, large steak. In assigning monster 'treasure' the FLESH item (ie dragon steak) should have its weight re-assigned. The only problem might be when you find dragon steaks as part of maps (ie map-maker put it there). Is this the case? or are you finding the dragon-steak left behind by killing the monster has a low weight? Because you have to kill monsters to get their parts, I allowed the FLESH items to have different cost/food value than FOOD. Do you think this is a play-balance problem? (Comments from anyone on this) Also, has anyone been having problems (still) with magic/wisdom experience gaining? I havent heard anything; I havent seen it in a while. For my next project, I have thought about putting together some CF documentation; has anyone been working on this? I am interested in starting up soon. Ideas on what is needed are appreciated! > From owner-crossfire Wed Jun 19 00:23:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:23:15 +0200 Received: from gossip.pyramid.com (gossip.pyramid.com [129.214.1.101]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:23:11 +0200 Received: from stealth-news.pyramid.com by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway) id AA26376; Tue, 18 Jun 96 15:22:33 -0700 Received: by stealth.eng.pyramid.com (8.6.12/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration) id PAA26205; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 15:22:27 -0700 From: "Mark Wedel" Message-Id: <9606181522.ZM26203@stealth.eng.pyramid.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 15:22:27 -0700 In-Reply-To: Paola.Caluri@CSELT.STET.IT "CF: how to connect to a crossfire server...." (Jun 18, 4:14pm) References: <01I626F1E96Q004UKN@POSTAL.CSELT.STET.IT> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: paola.caluri@CSELT.STET.IT, crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: CF: how to connect to a crossfire server.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO On Jun 18, 4:14pm, Paola.Caluri@CSELT.STET.IT wrote: > Subject: CF: how to connect to a crossfire server.... > Hi crossfire player! > > I didn't receive any answer to my previous mail: may be because you didn't > get it. So I try to send it again... > > I'm sorry to bother you all but I'd like to know how is it possible to play > crossfire on a server recheable by internet. > Until last year a friend of mine had a compiled version of the server in the > local network of our office, and I used to play on it. This year he couldn't > mantein it because of some problems and I stopped playing it for about 6 > monthes. Few days ago looking on the net with netscape for a graphical mud I > found a reference to Crossfire. How is it possible to play it on a server > somewhere on the net? > I use a workstation HP 735 not directly connected to internet, and from it I > do telnet on our sun worstation which exit on internet. Usually I > prefer xterm. > Thanks you in advance for your reply. > Paola > ********************************************************************* > * * > * Paola Caluri * > * CSELT - TORINO - ITALIA * > * paola.caluri@cselt.stet.it * > * * > ********************************************************************* >-- End of excerpt from Paola.Caluri@CSELT.STET.IT I am unclear on several things. What exactly do you mean by not directly connected to the internet? Normal way to play is to telnet to a crossfire server, and type 'add '. That is all there is to it (you may want to set some other options, but taht isn't required.) This does require that your display is somewhat connected to the interent - that is, connected enough so that the remote server can open a connection to it. That tends to mean that if you are behind a firewall, things don't work. So whether you can actually connect or not depends on how you are connected to the internet. -- --Mark From owner-crossfire Tue Jun 18 16:15:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:15:44 +0200 Received: from POSTAL.CSELT.STET.IT (postal.cselt.stet.it [163.162.4.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:15:40 +0200 From: Paola.Caluri@CSELT.STET.IT Received: from pgpchp1 (pgpchp1.cselt.stet.it) by POSTAL.CSELT.STET.IT (PMDF V4.2-15 #4385) id <01I626F1DZJK004UKN@POSTAL.CSELT.STET.IT>; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:15:01 MET Received: from localhost by pgpchp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA19122; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:14:51 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 16:14:45 METDST Subject: CF: how to connect to a crossfire server.... Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Reply-to: paola.caluri@cselt.stet.it Message-id: <01I626F1E96Q004UKN@POSTAL.CSELT.STET.IT> X-Envelope-to: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Hi crossfire player! I didn't receive any answer to my previous mail: may be because you didn't get it. So I try to send it again... I'm sorry to bother you all but I'd like to know how is it possible to play crossfire on a server recheable by internet. Until last year a friend of mine had a compiled version of the server in the local network of our office, and I used to play on it. This year he couldn't mantein it because of some problems and I stopped playing it for about 6 monthes. Few days ago looking on the net with netscape for a graphical mud I found a reference to Crossfire. How is it possible to play it on a server somewhere on the net? I use a workstation HP 735 not directly connected to internet, and from it I do telnet on our sun worstation which exit on internet. Usually I prefer xterm. Thanks you in advance for your reply. Paola ********************************************************************* * * * Paola Caluri * * CSELT - TORINO - ITALIA * * paola.caluri@cselt.stet.it * * * ********************************************************************* From owner-crossfire Tue Jun 18 11:30:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 11:30:10 +0200 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (kjetilho@mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 11:30:07 +0200 Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 11:30:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199606180930.5404.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:31:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Bristel Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: Problems compileing eutl Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO I am not sure if this is an appropriate subject for this list, but I have encountered problems compileing the eutl library on my Linux Slackware 3.0 system. I have not had this problem under the older a.out versions, so I am not sure if this is a problem with the newer libraries, or what the problem is. All works, except for the tcplib. Because I have had this problem since I upgraded to Slack 3.0 several months ago, and Crossfire itself works beautifully when I removed support for eutl, I have hesitated to mention it here. Has anyone else experienced this problem and/or found a workaround? Dave Bristel targon@netcom.com From owner-crossfire Thu Jun 13 12:01:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:01:26 +0200 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (kjetilho@mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:01:22 +0200 Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:01:19 +0200 Message-Id: <199606131001.26764.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> From: Paola.Caluri@CSELT.STET.IT Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 08:50:17 METDST Subject: CF: how to connect to a crossfire server.... Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Hi crossfire player! I'm sorry to bother you all but I'd like to know how is it possible to play crossfire on a server recheable by internet. Until last year a friend of mine had a compiled version of the server in the local network of our office, and I used to play on it. This year he couldn't mantein it because of some problems and I stopped playing it for about 6 monthes. Few days ago looking on the net with netscape for a graphical mud I found a reference to Crossfire. How is it possible to play it on a server somewhere on the net? I use a workstation HP 735 not directly connected to internet, and from it I do telnet on our sun worstation which exit on internet. Usually I prefer xterm. Thanks you in advance for your reply. Paola ********************************************************************* * * * Paola Caluri * * CSELT - TORINO - ITALIA * * paola.caluri@cselt.stet.it * * * ********************************************************************* From owner-crossfire Mon Jun 10 13:44:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:44:59 +0200 Received: from vortex.sdf (root@vortex.sdf.luth.se [130.239.144.1]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:44:52 +0200 Received: from what.sdf.luth.se (root@what [10.0.0.15]) by vortex.sdf (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA01282 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:40:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zaphod.sdf.luth.se (zaphod.sdf.luth.se [10.0.0.24]) by what.sdf.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07674 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:41:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: Peter Dahlgren Received: (from pavel@localhost) by zaphod.sdf.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA02753 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:39:21 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606101139.NAA02753@zaphod.sdf.luth.se> Subject: CF: i want to be dm Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:39:19 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO do anybody know how to play with dungeon master without being the administator if please send me a e-mail From owner-crossfire Mon Jun 10 13:27:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:27:42 +0200 Received: from vortex.sdf (root@vortex.sdf.luth.se [130.239.144.1]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:27:38 +0200 Received: from what.sdf.luth.se (root@what [10.0.0.15]) by vortex.sdf (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA01200 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:23:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zaphod.sdf.luth.se (zaphod.sdf.luth.se [10.0.0.24]) by what.sdf.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07532 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:23:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: Peter Dahlgren Received: (from pavel@localhost) by zaphod.sdf.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA02724 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:22:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606101122.NAA02724@zaphod.sdf.luth.se> Subject: CF: i have found some bugs Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:22:08 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO i have found some cool bugs the first is an old one read a scroll of create missile to update the world the second is enter the games with a quatcerko.. somting like that tp up date the world the third is a very simple bug to be level 108 very fast do like this thake 2 level 30 players and a storm bringer drain one of the players and save with the players that has got a lot of points and read a scroll of create magic missle the forth one is very simple too i you got a lot of lifesavings enter with two players wear a lifesaving on one of them a kill the player who iswearing the lifesaving you will get a lot of points and the other player survivs From owner-crossfire Sat Jun 8 01:59:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:59:07 +0200 Received: from nexus.astro.psu.edu (nexus.astro.psu.edu [128.118.147.20]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:59:02 +0200 Received: from zaphod.astro.psu.edu by nexus.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Nexus-1.3) id AA20130; Fri, 7 Jun 96 18:05:51 EDT Received: by zaphod.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Client-1.3) id AA26715; Fri, 7 Jun 96 18:05:19 EDT Date: Fri, 7 Jun 96 18:05:19 EDT From: "Brian Thomas" Message-Id: <9606072205.AA26715@zaphod.astro.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: skill_util.c patch... Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Argh. I just realized my patch for skill_util.c was not quite right. The line: > who->contr->shoottype=shoottype; in check_skill_to_fire should be uncommented (I put something on that line saying it was extraneous, wrong!) Below this message, I include a diff file for how the patch *should* be. (Mark please apply this one instead of previous one). -b.t. *** skill_util.c.orig Sun Apr 21 01:07:38 1996 --- skill_util.c Wed Jun 5 13:50:49 1996 *************** *** 548,561 **** break; default: LOG(llevError,"Warning: bad call of check_skill_to_fire()\n"); return 0; } if(who->chosen_skill!=NULL && (skillnr == who->chosen_skill->stats.sp)) return 1; ! else if (change_skill(who,skillnr)) { ! who->contr->shoottype=shoottype; return 1; } else return 0; } --- 562,581 ---- break; default: LOG(llevError,"Warning: bad call of check_skill_to_fire()\n"); return 0; } + /* if(who->chosen_skill!=NULL && (skillnr == who->chosen_skill->stats.sp)) return 1; ! */ ! if (change_skill(who,skillnr)) { ! who->contr->shoottype=shoottype; ! #ifdef SKILL_UTIL_DEBUG ! LOG(llevDebug,"check_skill_to_fire(): got skill:%s for %s\n" ! ,skills[skillnr].name,who->name); ! #endif return 1; } else return 0; } From owner-crossfire Fri Jun 7 23:31:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:31:38 +0200 Received: from xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov (xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.126.216]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:31:34 +0200 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov (LHEA9504/950407.s1) id RAA09831 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:31:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:31:00 -0400 From: Brian Thomas Message-Id: <199606072131.RAA09831@xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: spelllist/potion effects (long) Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Hi all, It seems that spellcasting from 'secondary' agents like altars (Marks new code), runes (comment from someone trying to make a "rune of staff to snake") and potions (eg. alchemy code) have shown there is increased interest in how spells might function when cast from objects. Here below then are my notes as to how the spells function (or dont) when cast from potions. There may be a differenct between the effects recorded below and what may arise if that spell were cast from an altar instead. In the several cases I have tested, I saw no difference though. Hopefully this list will prove usefull to other map makers. Caio, -b.t. Effects of spells imbedded into potions -b.t. ------------------------------------------------------------------- These are the "empirical" results of my testing the CF 0.92.4 spell code. Seven main general effects, related to the way in which the spell manifests, are noted: "360" Indicates that the spell is released as in a 360 degree field of effect, centered on the potion user. User is uneffected. "attack" Indicates that spell is released, centered on the potion 'user'. One day, when the throwing code is fixed, the 'user' can include the target of a thrown potion. "self" Similar to "attack" but no 'visual' effect occurs and no others are effected. "golem" A creature controled by the potion user is created. "create" Makes an item in the user's square. "destroy" Destroys items/creatures surrounding the user. "summon" Summons creatures friendly to user, but not strickly controled by the user. Looking at the list below, it would appear that the "golem","360" and "attack" spells are most likely to work. Real problems seem to exist for casting many of the clerical spells. Unless otherwise noted, all spells work. Sp#. SPELL Effect Notes -------------- ---------- ----------------------------- 1. sm. fireball attack 2. md. fireball attack 3. lg. fireball attack 4. burning hands 360 5. sm. lightning attack 6. lg. lightning attack 7. magic missile attack No visual effect. 8. create bomb create creates bomb at user's feet. 9. create golem golem no xp gain for golem kills. 10 - 13. create golem "" elemental 14. dimension door self nothing happens; asks "what direction?" 15. create earth wall create fails; asks "what direction?" 16. paralyze 360 17. icestorm 360 18. magic mapping self works fine. 19. turn undead 360 20. poison cloud 360? user appears unaffected. 21. fear 360 22. wonder 360 flowers appear, other effects? 23. destruction destroy works, but says "you killed with " odd. 24. percieve self self 25. word of recall self 26. invisibility self in 0.92.4 code this failed, bug fixed for 0.92.5+ (?) 27. invis. to undead self as for invisibility 28. probe self bizarre. gives user weight. 29. large bullet attack fails. nothing happens. 30. improv. invis. self same as for invisibility. 31. holy word 360 failed, says "need to worship a god". Might work if you are a worshipper?? 32. minor healing self Heals others if nearby?? 33. med. healing self "" 34. major healing self "" 35. heal self "" 36. create food create food appears below user. 37. earth to dust destroy fails. 38. armour self 39. strength self works fine. 40. dexterity self 41. constitution self 42. charisma self 43. create fire wall create fails; as create earth wall. 44. create frost wall create fails; as above 45 - 53. protection self all work well from ?? spells 54. levitation self 55. sm. speedball attack no effect. 56. lg. speedball attack no effect. 57. hellfire 360 58. dragon breath 360 59. lg. icestorm 360 60. charging self? fails. 61. polymorph attack? fails. nothing happens. 62. cancellation attack? fails. nothing happens. 63. confusion self works, says "hands glow red" 64. mass confusion 360 65. summon pet monst. summon works, but no text. 66. slow 360 67. regenerate sp. self 68. cure poison self 69. prot. from conf. self 70. prot. from cancel self 71. prot. from deplete self 72. alchemy 360 works, only adjacent sq. effected 73. remove curse self 74. remove damnation self 75. identify self 76. detect magic 360 77. detect monster 360 78. detect evil 360 79. detect curse 360 80. heroism self 81. aggravation ??? failed. 82. firebolt attack 83. frostbolt attack 84. shockwave 360 85. colorspray 360 86. haste self failed?. effect is very small. 87. face of death. 360 88. ball lightning create on users sq. attacks user? 89. meteor swarm attack very deadly. 90. comet attack deadly. 91. mystic fist golem as other golem spells. 92. raise dead ???? not tested 93. resurrection ???? not tested 94. reincarnation ???? not tested 95-103. immunity spells self 104. invulnerability self 105. defense self 106. rune of fire create fails; rune appears above user 107. rune of frost create "" 108. rune of shock create "" 109. rune of blasting create "" 110. rune of death create "" 111. rune of marking create "" 112. build director create works; below user in facing dir 113. create pool chaos create failed. 114. build bullet wall create appears on top of user;points in user facing direction. 115. build lightn. wall create as build bull. wall above 116. build fire wall create as build bull. wall above 117. magic rune create failed. 118. rune of mag. drain create as other runes 119. anti-mag. rune create "" 120. rune of transfer create "" 121. transference attack works; can kill user 122. magic drain attack works 123. counterspell 360 124. disarm ???? works? 125. cure confusion self 126. restoration self 127. summon evil mon. summon failed. 128. counterwall create fails; asks "what direction?" 129. cause lht. wounds attack bizarre; req. worship a god. fails to work if you do. 130. cause med. wounds attack "" 131. cause ser. wounds attack "" 132. charm monster attack fails 133. banishment 360 as "holy word" 134. create missile create creates missiles in user inventory! Works I guess. 135. show invisible self 136. xray vision self 137. pacify attack fails 138. summon fog create creates fog above user. 139. steambolt attack works; later steam surr. user. 140. command undead attack appears to fail 141. holy orb attack fails; as "holy word" 142. summon avatar golem "" 143. holy possession self fails; get "empty blessing" msg. 144. bless self "" 145. curse self/attack "" 146. regeneration self 147. concecrate altar ???? fails; need "god to worship". In that case fails too. 148. summon cult mon. summon failed; might work if right god is worshiped. 149. cause crit. wounds attack failed; as other "wounds" spells 150. retrib. strike attack failed majorly! CF code thrown into inf. loop. DONT USE THIS!! 151. finger of death attack as retrib. strike! 152. insect plague attack as retrib. strike! 153. finger of death attack as retrib. strike! 154. call holy servnt. golem as summon avatar. 155. wall of thorns create fails as counterwall 156. staff to snake create? fails 157. light create fails, asks "what direction" 158. darkness create "" 159. nightfall ???? 160. daylight ???? 161. sunspear attack 162. faery fire attack user makes others glow. 163. cure blindness self 164. dark vision self From owner-crossfire Wed Jun 5 20:00:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:00:29 +0200 Received: from nexus.astro.psu.edu (nexus.astro.psu.edu [128.118.147.20]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:00:25 +0200 Received: from zaphod.astro.psu.edu by nexus.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Nexus-1.3) id AA04791; Wed, 5 Jun 96 13:57:57 EDT Received: by zaphod.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Client-1.3) id AA18644; Wed, 5 Jun 96 13:57:26 EDT Date: Wed, 5 Jun 96 13:57:26 EDT From: "Brian Thomas" Message-Id: <9606051757.AA18644@zaphod.astro.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: apply.c : skill tool problem Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Hey all, I found this problem in the apply code: when a skill tool was being explicitly applied, the skill assoicated with the skill was'nt getting selected as the new chosen skill for the player. This caused problems down the line in other fctns.. here is a short patch to apply.c -b.t. *** apply.c.orig Sun Apr 21 01:07:37 1996 --- apply.c Wed Jun 5 13:45:30 1996 *************** *** 2008,2018 **** who->contr->shoottype=range_none; who->contr->last_value = -1; } CLEAR_FLAG(who, FLAG_READY_SKILL); who->chosen_skill=NULL; ! sprintf(buf,"You stop using the %s.",query_name(op)); break; #endif case ARMOUR: case HELMET: case SHIELD: --- 2019,2029 ---- who->contr->shoottype=range_none; who->contr->last_value = -1; } CLEAR_FLAG(who, FLAG_READY_SKILL); who->chosen_skill=NULL; ! /* sprintf(buf,"You stop using the %s.",query_name(op)); */ break; #endif case ARMOUR: case HELMET: case SHIELD: *************** *** 2196,2206 **** new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,who,buf); if(tmp!=NULL) (void) insert_ob_in_ob(tmp,who); return 1; } ! sprintf(buf,"You apply %s.",query_name(op)); SET_FLAG(who, FLAG_READY_SKILL); break; #endif /* For new skills/exp system- must have 'missile weapons' skill in order to --- 2207,2218 ---- new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,who,buf); if(tmp!=NULL) (void) insert_ob_in_ob(tmp,who); return 1; } ! sprintf(buf,"You ready %s.",query_name(op)); ! who->chosen_skill=op; SET_FLAG(who, FLAG_READY_SKILL); break; #endif /* For new skills/exp system- must have 'missile weapons' skill in order to From owner-crossfire Wed Jun 5 18:20:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 18:20:42 +0200 Received: from nexus.astro.psu.edu (nexus.astro.psu.edu [128.118.147.20]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 18:20:26 +0200 Received: from zaphod.astro.psu.edu by nexus.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Nexus-1.3) id AA04217; Wed, 5 Jun 96 12:20:51 EDT Received: by zaphod.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Client-1.3) id AA18293; Wed, 5 Jun 96 12:20:20 EDT Date: Wed, 5 Jun 96 12:20:20 EDT From: "Brian Thomas" Message-Id: <9606051620.AA18293@zaphod.astro.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: invoke patch Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Hi, Well, I think this is one piece (at least) of the magic experience problem. Apparently, for characters invoking spells, command_cast_spell() fctn was failing to check check_skill_to_fire() which would set the appropriate skill (either spellcasting or praying). In some cases, it was possible to have used a different skill before invoking.. this would then send experience to the wrong experience object (which could be exp:none -- so NO exp was gained). The patch to input.c follows this message. I would like to add that I think there may be another problem out in the code -- I seem to remember casting spells, gaining no experience, *and* having skill:spellcasting set. Oh well, one thing at a time , eh? Caio, -b.t. *** input.c.orig Sun Apr 21 01:07:38 1996 --- input.c Wed Jun 5 12:07:17 1996 *************** *** 988,1026 **** for(i=0;icontr->known_spells[i]; if (!strncmp(params, spells[spnum].name, strlen(params))) { ! /* matched the spell name. */ ! /* if (spells[spnum].range != 0) {*/ if (castnow) { - rangetype tmp_rangetype=op->contr->shoottype; int value; ! /* Need to switch shoottype to range_magic - otherwise ! * cast_spell doesn't check to see if the character ! * has enough spellpoints. ! */ ! op->contr->shoottype=range_magic; ! #ifdef ALLOW_SKILLS ! if(op->type==PLAYER&&!QUERY_FLAG(op,FLAG_WIZ)) ! if(!check_skill_to_fire(op)) return 0; ! #endif value = cast_spell(op,op,op->facing,spnum,0,spellNormal,cp); ! op->contr->shoottype=tmp_rangetype; if(spells[spnum].cleric) op->stats.grace -= value; else op->stats.sp -= value; ! } else { ! op->contr->shoottype=range_magic; op->contr->chosen_spell=spnum; ! } draw_stats(op); return 1; - /* }*/ /* op->stats.sp -= invoke_spell(op, op->facing, spnum, 0, spellNormal, cp); draw_stats(op); return 1; */ --- 990,1030 ---- for(i=0;icontr->known_spells[i]; if (!strncmp(params, spells[spnum].name, strlen(params))) { ! rangetype orig_rangetype=op->contr->shoottype; ! op->contr->shoottype=range_magic; ! #ifdef ALLOW_SKILLS ! if(op->type==PLAYER&&!QUERY_FLAG(op,FLAG_WIZ)) { ! if(!check_skill_to_fire(op)) { ! op->contr->shoottype=orig_rangetype; ! return 0; ! } ! } ! #endif if (castnow) { int value; ! /* Need to switch shoottype to range_magic - otherwise ! * cast_spell doesn't check to see if the character ! * has enough spellpoints. ! * Note: now done above this -b.t. */ ! /* op->contr->shoottype=range_magic; */ ! value = cast_spell(op,op,op->facing,spnum,0,spellNormal,cp); ! op->contr->shoottype=orig_rangetype; if(spells[spnum].cleric) op->stats.grace -= value; else op->stats.sp -= value; ! } else op->contr->chosen_spell=spnum; ! draw_stats(op); return 1; /* op->stats.sp -= invoke_spell(op, op->facing, spnum, 0, spellNormal, cp); draw_stats(op); return 1; */ From owner-crossfire Tue Jun 4 19:07:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:07:56 +0200 Received: from xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov (xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.126.216]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:07:52 +0200 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov (LHEA9504/950407.s1) id NAA07736; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:07:15 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:07:15 -0400 From: Brian Thomas Message-Id: <199606041707.NAA07736@xplorer.gsfc.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no, tdoan@nortel.ca Subject: Re: CF: Major bugs in 92.2 Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO > From: "tuan (t.) doan" writes: > > I found the following bugs in 92.2; it may or may not been fixed in later > releases. > > common/loader.c:load_object > faces[] is an array of MAX_ANIMATIONS=64 which is not enough to load > archetypes torch...When the array is written out of bound, compiling > under -O will cause a memory trampler (it will cause a core dump when > compiled under -g)\ Argh. I thought I sent out a "patch" for this. Actually, the problem is that I put a butt load of images in the animation section of the archetype "torch". This is foolish, actually it can be taken care of by using the "food" variable appropriately Ill post an updated "torch" arch at the end of this message. > > server/spell_util.c:get_pointed_target > any spells that call get_pointed_target will crash the game if the direction > is not given (ie: pressing the '.') > FIX: 1. return appropriate value if direction not given > line 1870 > > if (dir==0) return ((object *) NULL); > This is my fault again. Ill check out your patch. Thanks! b.t. (patch for the archetypes "torch_1" and "torch_2", to replace those entries in the "torch.arc" file) Object torch_1 name torch face torch_lit1.111 other_arch dim_torch anim torch_lit1.111 torch_lit2.111 mina material 144 food 500 changing 1 value 0 weight 3000 speed 0.15 glow_radius 3 editable 128 end Object dim_torch name torch face torch_lit2.111 other_arch burnt_torch anim torch_lit1.111 torch_lit2.111 mina material 144 food 60 changing 1 value 0 weight 2990 speed 0.15 glow_radius 2 end From owner-crossfire Mon Jun 3 12:22:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:22:29 +0200 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:22:24 +0200 Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:21:02 +0200 Message-Id: <199606031021.4826.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 96 02:27:05 PDT From: Curtiss <1CMC3466@ibm.MtSAC.edu> Organization: Mt. San Antonio College Subject: CF: Missing lines in maps/editor/picks/lakes Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Since 0.92.2 when I started using crossedit I found that the lakes pick won't work because lakes file won't load properly. The first thing I noticed was that a few lines got removed somehow in the file leaving a blank line at the top and on the next line is just a "y 2". I was able to fix this partly and get crossedit to finally load the map, just miss ing two tiles from the map that I know of. Later today I'll be posting a short patch for it that will return the file to the way it should be. -- Curtiss From owner-crossfire Mon Jun 3 12:14:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:14:26 +0200 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:14:20 +0200 Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:12:58 +0200 Message-Id: <199606031012.4802.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> From: Stephen Young Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 22:54:46 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: Servers... Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO I have what I think is a working crossfire client but I don't know if it works. The only server I could find is in Japan and the bitmaps seem to be corrupted due to the distance or some problem along those lines (the server mentions that it is possible for that to occure). Is there a list of currently working servers or can anyone suggest some sites? The only page on the web with a list of servers is outdated... Thanks in advance Stephen Young youngs3@rpi.edu From owner-crossfire Sun Jun 30 22:39:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:39:09 +0200 Received: from gateway.targonia.com (targon@gateway.targonia.com [192.187.134.24]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:39:03 +0200 Received: (from targon@localhost) by gateway.targonia.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA14550; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:37:22 -0700 Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:37:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Bristel Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: RE: Problems compiling eutl Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Sorry if you get this twice, my link glitched on me and set the from incorrectly. After a bit of work trying to track down the problem compileing the eutl library on my Slackware 3.0 based system(Running the Linux 2.0.0 kernel), I have tracked the problem down to the kernel source. While I am not good enough at fixing these problems to solve the problem myself, this is what I have done to trace the problem. Took a clean Slackware 3.0 system with kernel 1.2.13. Installed eutl cleanly, no problems. deleted the linuxelf-1.2.13 source tree, replaced it with the 2.0.0 source tree, compiled the kernel, and rebooted attempted a new clean compile of eutl, and got the following results: gcc -g -Wall -I../include -c tcplib.c -o tcplib.o In file included from tcplib.h:13, from tcplib.c:11: /usr/include/sys/uio.h:33: redefinition of `struct iovec' tcplib.c: In function `BecomeServer': tcplib.c:225: warning: passing arg 2 of `bind' from incompatible pointer type tcplib.c:226: warning: implicit declaration of function `close' tcplib.c: In function `GetConnection': tcplib.c:264: warning: implicit declaration of function `bcopy' tcplib.c:271: warning: passing arg 2 of `connect' from incompatible pointer typetcplib.c: In function `AcceptConnection': tcplib.c:300: warning: passing arg 2 of `accept' from incompatible pointer type tcplib.c: In function `__DoSendMsg': tcplib.c:345: warning: implicit declaration of function `write' make[1]: *** [tcplib.o] Error 1 I then turned around, replaced the kernel with a backup, and rebooted back into 1.2.13. I did NOT replace the kernel source tree. I got identical results. This leads me to the conclusion that it is the source tree, rather than the kernel itself which is the source of the problem. I will continue to seek the source of this problem, and see what changed from 1.2.13 to 2.0.0(I also had this problem on all kernels from 1.3.45 and later). If anyone has an answer to this, I would appreciate it. David Bristel targon@netcom.com From owner-crossfire Mon Jul 1 14:24:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:24:54 +0200 Received: from glacier.wise.edt.ericsson.se (glacier-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.38]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:24:42 +0200 Received: from chapelle.eed.ericsson.se (chapelle.eed.ericsson.se [164.48.132.130]) by glacier.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.7.5/8.7.3/glacier-0.9) with ESMTP id OAA22665 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:24:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from eedraq@localhost) by chapelle.eed.ericsson.se (8.7.1/8.7.1) id OAA23596 for crossfire@ifi.uio.no; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:24:33 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:24:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199607011224.OAA23596@chapelle.eed.ericsson.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no Subject: CF: invoke bug for prayers From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO In CrossFire, I have one key bound to "invoke holy word" and another bound to "invoke major healing". Note that both of them are prayers (cleric spells). Most of the time, this works perfectly. But there are some times (usually when I am in a very unsafe place...) when these prayers don't work and I get the (incorrect) warning "This prayer is useless unless you worship an appropriate god". Well, of course I do worship an appropriate god... I added some debug code in fire_arch (spell_util.c) and in tailor_god_spell (gods.c) and here is what I get when the bug occurs: # caster->name = Raphael # godnr = -1 !!! # God name = none # op->chosen_skill->name == talisman # op->chosen_skill->exp_obj->name == magic # op->chosen_skill->exp_obj->title == NULL Obviously, there is something wrong there, because the holy symbol should have been readied instead of the talisman (I applied the "invoke patch" from b.t. and that didn't solve the problem). Even worse, if I ready the holy symbol manually, it switches back to the talisman when I try to "invoke holy word". I don't know what triggers this bug, although I have found that it occurs most of the time when I reload a saved game (but it also happens infrequently during normal gameplay). I found a way to cure the bug: use the tab key to cycle the list of known spells. As soon as I switch to a cleric spell (any of them, but in this case the first one I know is "banishment", after the wizard spells "alchemy" and "armour"), then everything is back to normal and I can use all "invoke" commands freely. The same happens if I use "cast " first, and then "invoke holy word" (although this sometimes triggers another strange bug which causes all cone spells to become very weak, not only for me but also for the monsters and other players -- then I have to restart the server). Anyway, that is a kludge and I would like to fix that in the code, if only I knew what was wrong. Any ideas? I think that I am very close to finding that bug, but I don't know what part of the code should be patched. I hope that the info given above will help b.t. or someone else, so that the bug(s) can be fixed before the next release (if this isn't already fixed). -Raphael From owner-crossfire Mon Jul 1 10:58:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from mdomo@localhost) by ifi.uio.no (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for crossfire-ut ; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:58:26 +0200 Received: from rulway.leidenuniv.nl (rulway.LeidenUniv.nl [132.229.8.6]) by ifi.uio.no with SMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id ; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:58:23 +0200 Received: from chemde4.LeidenUniv.nl by rulway.leidenuniv.nl with SMTP id AA12202 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:58:19 +0200 Received: by chemde4.leidenuniv.nl (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @RULWAY.LEIDENUNIV.NL:targon@targonia.uucp.netcom.com id AA23220; Mon, 1 Jul 96 10:59:25 +0200 Date: Mon, 1 Jul 96 10:59:25 +0200 From: frits@chemde4.leidenuniv.nl (Frits Daalmans) Message-Id: <9607010859.AA23220@chemde4.leidenuniv.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 To: owner-crossfire@ifi.uio.no, crossfire@ifi.uio.no, Dave Bristel Subject: CF: Crossfire 0.92.4 and Linux 2.0.0 (was: problems compiling eutl) Sender: owner-crossfire Precedence: bulk Status: RO Have you checked your symlinks??? ln -s /usr/src/linux/include/linux /usr/include/linux ln -s /usr/src/linux/include/asm-i386 /usr/include/asm (if you have a PC; otherwise use asm-alpha etc.) the directories /usr/include/linux and /usr/include/asm should not exist but ONLY be symlinks to the kernel tree. Also, what version of gcc and libc are you using??? for linux 2.0.0, gcc 2.7.2 is recommended, as well as libc 5.2.18 (or higher). (this is for an ELF based system) When compiling the kernel, read the documentation! first make the symlinks by hand then make menuconfig (if you have ncurses) then make dep then make clean then make zImage I don't think you're ignorant; i don't even know you :-), but don't be offended by me re-iterating everything you should do. I just try to be complete. I am mailing you because this weekend i recompiled kernel 2.0.0 as well as compiled crossfire-0.92.4 (standalone, no eutl or server/client) at home, and it works like a charm, except for a problem in Goth's tavern that i'll write to the mailinglist. (spoiler) I used the maps from 0.92.0 and when trying to cheat the drunk in Goth's tavern to open the door to the cellar by dropping a booze (a good one) on his table, it explodes into a fireball immediately killing me and pissing off the other customers :-) :-( is this a bug or a feature? should I upgrade to a newer map version? Greetings, back to work, Frits Frits Daalmans OIO Conformational Analysis Gorlaeus Laboratoria Leiden, The Netherlands E-mail: frits@chemde4.leidenuniv.nl Tel: [+31] (0)71-5274505