From mwedel at sonic.net Wed Jun 2 00:15:43 2010 From: mwedel at sonic.net (Mark Wedel) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 22:15:43 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Skills & Classes In-Reply-To: <4BFF4EB6.4000004@sonic.net> References: <4BFF4EB6.4000004@sonic.net> Message-ID: <4C05E8FF.4030207@sonic.net> As thinking about this on my drive home from work tonight, it seemed like taking a step back from classes to look at how skills work might be a good idea. The two are very closely related - depending on how skills work determines what skills to give to different classes, and how to balance them. In brief history of crossfire: The first many versions of crossfire did not have any skills. You had a single character level, and all attributes came from that (ability to use magic, effectiveness with weapons, as well as hp/sp). Later, skills were added, but with a few skill categories that contained the level an effectiveness of the skill (in terms of current skills, this would mean that evocation, sorcery, pyromancy and summoning would have a skill bucket of 'magic', and it is the level of magic that determined level of all those skills, and if you get exp using a pyromancy skill, it would go in the magic bucket. The only thing this really did was limit some abilities until one gained a skill). Then, at a later point, those categories were removed, and each skill had a level, exp for a skill was gained by using that skill. That is where things currently are. I bring this up because as this illustrates, skills was an add on from the original crossfire, and so the question that comes to mind is this the right approach. So as I was in traffic thinking about this, I realized there are different ways skill systems work out: 1) Number of skills: Some systems have very few skills (almost a 1:1 mapping of skill to class). Other systems have lots of skills, in some cases getting very discrete (dagger, sword, hand axe, battle axe, etc as an example of weapon skills). Most systems are somewhere in the middle. But a question is there - should we try to limit skills to some total number of skills, and that may mean removing some skills or adding their abilities to other skills? 2) Method of advancement: There are a few different methods here - one is to use what is currently done - only way a skill improves is to use it. Other systems use a mechanism where as the character gains level, they get some number of points to improve skills they have. Some systems have a hybrid approach - as you use the skill, you get better, but as you gain overall levels, you get some number of points to improve skills. 3) Cap/improvability of skills: Should all/most skills be reasonably possible to reach maximum level? Should all skills be improvable (there are several skills in crossfire right now which are not improvable as an example). This is a general concept question related to class skills and for now is ignoring that non class skills may have level caps and/or less favorable exp gain ratios that make reaching max level impossible 4) Starting still quality: Should a characters class skills (magic use skill for wizards, weapon skill for warriors) be somehow better? We had discussed different versions that have better/worse exp ratios, but for a brand new character, that fighters and cleric weapon skill is still identical - it only gets better for the fighter in the sense the fighter should gain a level in that skill faster. My thought here is to make class skills effectively a higher level, eg, a clerics weapon skill may start at level 3, a fighters at level 5, and a wizards at level 1 (note, probably would be good to change the term level to some other term). My quick thoughts on these points: 1) Middle approach seems good - this is what crossfire currently does (has about 40 skills). Some could perhaps be merged, and I could see adding some new ones. 2) I'm tempted by the hybrid approach myself - I'm not sure what portion should be based on using the skill and what by points, by something like 75 (exp)/25 (level gain points) may be workable - this gives some mechanism to improve hard to improve skills 3) Skills should be improvable (if it is not improvable, I'd put that into an 'ability' definition). This is based more on consistency - since most of the skills right now are improvable, it just makes sense that all be improvable, since the skill framework bases a lot on that idea. I don't think it is realistic that all skills be able to get to a point of maximum level - at least not easily (if someone really wants to grind, then perhaps so) 4) I think classes would get more distinction if starting skills were more effective (effective level is higher) - this would give wizards better spell choices. Note on abilities vs skills: This may be a matter of semantics, but for many of the non improvable skills, the reason they are skills (I believe) is it provided a simple mechanism to put them on treasure lists to give them out, but also provides a mechanism already in place to use them (use_skill ....) The idea of abilities here is to provide another method to use this without it being a skill. One reason I think this is desirable is per other discussions, where as one improves in their skill, that skill might also grant them certain abilities, but calling them spells (even if they act a lot like it) might also be confusing. From kbulgrien at att.net Wed Jun 2 20:22:42 2010 From: kbulgrien at att.net (Kevin Bulgrien) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 20:22:42 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Revision: 13336 has broken CFDialog Message-ID: <20100602202242.30bd411e@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> This commit has broken dialogs. It is no longer possible to get out of scorn by saying a password, and it further appears that most CFDialogs are now completely disabled... Scorn quests, Goths Hintson... etc. No server messages are issued. The NPCs simply do not respond any more. I backed up to 13325 in the python folder and moved forward until it re-broke. This is the culprit. --- Revision: 13336 http://crossfire.svn.sourceforge.net/crossfire/?rev=13336&view=rev Author: ryo_saeba Date: 2010-05-30 10:11:58 +0000 (Sun, 30 May 2010) Log Message: ----------- Add 'npctoken' and 'setnpctoken' pre and post conditions, to keep data in NPC instead of player. Modified Paths: -------------- maps/trunk/python/CFDialog.py maps/trunk/python/dialog/post/settoken.py maps/trunk/python/dialog/pre/token.py Added Paths: ----------- maps/trunk/python/dialog/post/setnpctoken.py maps/trunk/python/dialog/pre/npctoken.py From nicolas.weeger at laposte.net Thu Jun 3 11:37:19 2010 From: nicolas.weeger at laposte.net (Nicolas Weeger) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 18:37:19 +0200 Subject: [crossfire] Revision: 13336 has broken CFDialog In-Reply-To: <20100602202242.30bd411e@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> References: <20100602202242.30bd411e@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> Message-ID: <201006031837.22840.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> Hello. > This commit has broken dialogs. It is no longer possible to get out of > scorn by saying a password, and it further appears that most CFDialogs are > now completely disabled... > > Scorn quests, Goths Hintson... etc. No server messages are issued. The > NPCs simply do not respond any more. > > I backed up to 13325 in the python folder and moved forward until it > re-broke. This is the culprit. Using the latest SVN, all seems to work as expected, but I'm getting the following warnings in the server logs: :104: DeprecationWarning: dict.has_key() not supported in 3.x; use the in operator (...)share/crossfire/maps/python/CFDialog.py:215: DeprecationWarning: dict.has_key() not supported in 3.x; use the in operator if Crossfire.GetPrivateDictionary().has_key(key): What Python version are you using? Would it be 3.x by any chance? ;) Nicolas -- Mon p'tit coin du web - http://nicolas.weeger.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://mailman.metalforge.org/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20100603/9077e615/attachment.pgp From kbulgrien at att.net Thu Jun 3 18:02:17 2010 From: kbulgrien at att.net (Kevin Bulgrien) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 18:02:17 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Revision: 13336 has broken CFDialog In-Reply-To: <201006031837.22840.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> References: <20100602202242.30bd411e@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> <201006031837.22840.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> Message-ID: <20100603180217.7ae64643@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> > Hello. > > > This commit has broken dialogs. It is no longer possible to get out of > > scorn by saying a password, and it further appears that most CFDialogs are > > now completely disabled... > > > > Scorn quests, Goths Hintson... etc. No server messages are issued. The > > NPCs simply do not respond any more. > > > > I backed up to 13325 in the python folder and moved forward until it > > re-broke. This is the culprit. > > Using the latest SVN, all seems to work as expected, but I'm getting the > following warnings in the server logs: > > :104: DeprecationWarning: dict.has_key() not supported in 3.x; use the > in operator > (...)share/crossfire/maps/python/CFDialog.py:215: DeprecationWarning: > dict.has_key() not supported in 3.x; use the in operator > if Crossfire.GetPrivateDictionary().has_key(key): > > What Python version are you using? Would it be 3.x by any chance? ;) $ python --version Python 2.5.2 $ rpm -qa | grep python | grep 3 gnome-python-bonobo-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 python-rhpl-0.212-3mdv2009.0 python-reportlab-2.1-3mdv2009.0 python-celementtree-1.0.5-2.3mdv2009.0 gnome-python-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 python-dbus-0.83.0-1mdv2009.0 python-qt-3.17.4-1mdv2009.0 python-notify-0.1.1-3mdv2009.0 python-configobj-4.5.3-1mdv2009.0 gnome-python-canvas-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 python-zope-interface-3.4.1-1mdv2009.0 $ svn status server maps ? server/trunk/svn-commit.tmp ? server/trunk/plugins/cf_darcap/Makefile.in ? server/trunk/plugins/cf_darcap/Makefile ? server/trunk/plugins/citylife/include/Makefile.in ? server/trunk/plugins/citylife/include/Makefile ? server/trunk/plugins/cfrhg/include/Makefile.in ? server/trunk/plugins/cfrhg/include/Makefile M server/trunk/include/autoconf.h.in ? server/trunk/utils/crossfire-mapper ? server/trunk/utils/cre/gmon.out ? server/trunk/utils/cre/cre.gch ? server/branches/1.x ? maps/trunk/pup_land/lone_town.invidious ? maps/trunk/pup_land/guilds/purple_butterfly.invidious ? maps/trunk/unlinked/kbulgrien/kbulgrien I am also at top of SVN. Kevin From nicolas.weeger at laposte.net Fri Jun 4 01:43:20 2010 From: nicolas.weeger at laposte.net (Nicolas Weeger) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 08:43:20 +0200 Subject: [crossfire] Revision: 13336 has broken CFDialog In-Reply-To: <20100603180217.7ae64643@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> References: <20100602202242.30bd411e@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> <201006031837.22840.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> <20100603180217.7ae64643@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> Message-ID: <201006040843.24942.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> Hello. Could you please try with the attached CFDialog.py file? Just in case, remove your existing CFDialog.pyc, and restart the server - for some reason, changes to CFDialog.py aren't always taken into account without a server restart, for some reason. I changed the "except Exception as error" line back to its original state. Thanks Nicolas Le vendredi 04 juin 2010 01:02:17, Kevin Bulgrien a ?crit : > > Hello. > > > > > This commit has broken dialogs. It is no longer possible to get out of > > > scorn by saying a password, and it further appears that most CFDialogs > > > are now completely disabled... > > > > > > Scorn quests, Goths Hintson... etc. No server messages are issued. > > > The NPCs simply do not respond any more. > > > > > > I backed up to 13325 in the python folder and moved forward until it > > > re-broke. This is the culprit. > > > > Using the latest SVN, all seems to work as expected, but I'm getting the > > following warnings in the server logs: > > > > :104: DeprecationWarning: dict.has_key() not supported in 3.x; > > use the in operator > > (...)share/crossfire/maps/python/CFDialog.py:215: DeprecationWarning: > > dict.has_key() not supported in 3.x; use the in operator > > > > if Crossfire.GetPrivateDictionary().has_key(key): > > What Python version are you using? Would it be 3.x by any chance? ;) > > $ python --version > Python 2.5.2 > > $ rpm -qa | grep python | grep 3 > gnome-python-bonobo-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 > python-rhpl-0.212-3mdv2009.0 > python-reportlab-2.1-3mdv2009.0 > python-celementtree-1.0.5-2.3mdv2009.0 > gnome-python-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 > python-dbus-0.83.0-1mdv2009.0 > python-qt-3.17.4-1mdv2009.0 > python-notify-0.1.1-3mdv2009.0 > python-configobj-4.5.3-1mdv2009.0 > gnome-python-canvas-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 > python-zope-interface-3.4.1-1mdv2009.0 > > $ svn status server maps > ? server/trunk/svn-commit.tmp > ? server/trunk/plugins/cf_darcap/Makefile.in > ? server/trunk/plugins/cf_darcap/Makefile > ? server/trunk/plugins/citylife/include/Makefile.in > ? server/trunk/plugins/citylife/include/Makefile > ? server/trunk/plugins/cfrhg/include/Makefile.in > ? server/trunk/plugins/cfrhg/include/Makefile > M server/trunk/include/autoconf.h.in > ? server/trunk/utils/crossfire-mapper > ? server/trunk/utils/cre/gmon.out > ? server/trunk/utils/cre/cre.gch > ? server/branches/1.x > ? maps/trunk/pup_land/lone_town.invidious > ? maps/trunk/pup_land/guilds/purple_butterfly.invidious > ? maps/trunk/unlinked/kbulgrien/kbulgrien > > I am also at top of SVN. > > Kevin > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire -- Mon p'tit coin du web - http://nicolas.weeger.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CFDialog.py Type: text/x-python Size: 17744 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.metalforge.org/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20100604/e689b323/attachment.py -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://mailman.metalforge.org/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20100604/e689b323/attachment.pgp From kbulgrien at att.net Sat Jun 5 12:16:27 2010 From: kbulgrien at att.net (Kevin Bulgrien) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:16:27 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Revision: 13336 has broken CFDialog In-Reply-To: <201006040843.24942.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> References: <20100602202242.30bd411e@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> <201006031837.22840.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> <20100603180217.7ae64643@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> <201006040843.24942.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> Message-ID: <20100605121627.0d7bf6f6@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> > Hello. > > Could you please try with the attached CFDialog.py file? > Just in case, remove your existing CFDialog.pyc, and restart the server - for > some reason, changes to CFDialog.py aren't always taken into account without a > server restart, for some reason. > > I changed the "except Exception as error" line back to its original state. > > Thanks > > Nicolas This file works properly. I did svn update -r HEAD on CFDialog.py before trying it just to confirm the dialogs were still not working. After clearing the .pyc and restarting the server, I confirmed the NPCs were broken. Then I put the attached file in its place, removed the .pyc, and restarted the server. I tested with the Scorn port gate guard and Goth's Hintson. Both worked fine. > > > Hello. > > > > > > > This commit has broken dialogs. It is no longer possible to get out of > > > > scorn by saying a password, and it further appears that most CFDialogs > > > > are now completely disabled... > > > > > > > > Scorn quests, Goths Hintson... etc. No server messages are issued. > > > > The NPCs simply do not respond any more. > > > > > > > > I backed up to 13325 in the python folder and moved forward until it > > > > re-broke. This is the culprit. > > > > > > Using the latest SVN, all seems to work as expected, but I'm getting the > > > following warnings in the server logs: > > > > > > :104: DeprecationWarning: dict.has_key() not supported in 3.x; > > > use the in operator > > > (...)share/crossfire/maps/python/CFDialog.py:215: DeprecationWarning: > > > dict.has_key() not supported in 3.x; use the in operator > > > > > > if Crossfire.GetPrivateDictionary().has_key(key): > > > What Python version are you using? Would it be 3.x by any chance? ;) > > > > $ python --version > > Python 2.5.2 > > > > $ rpm -qa | grep python | grep 3 > > gnome-python-bonobo-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 > > python-rhpl-0.212-3mdv2009.0 > > python-reportlab-2.1-3mdv2009.0 > > python-celementtree-1.0.5-2.3mdv2009.0 > > gnome-python-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 > > python-dbus-0.83.0-1mdv2009.0 > > python-qt-3.17.4-1mdv2009.0 > > python-notify-0.1.1-3mdv2009.0 > > python-configobj-4.5.3-1mdv2009.0 > > gnome-python-canvas-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 > > python-zope-interface-3.4.1-1mdv2009.0 > > > > $ svn status server maps > > ? server/trunk/svn-commit.tmp > > ? server/trunk/plugins/cf_darcap/Makefile.in > > ? server/trunk/plugins/cf_darcap/Makefile > > ? server/trunk/plugins/citylife/include/Makefile.in > > ? server/trunk/plugins/citylife/include/Makefile > > ? server/trunk/plugins/cfrhg/include/Makefile.in > > ? server/trunk/plugins/cfrhg/include/Makefile > > M server/trunk/include/autoconf.h.in > > ? server/trunk/utils/crossfire-mapper > > ? server/trunk/utils/cre/gmon.out > > ? server/trunk/utils/cre/cre.gch > > ? server/branches/1.x > > ? maps/trunk/pup_land/lone_town.invidious > > ? maps/trunk/pup_land/guilds/purple_butterfly.invidious > > ? maps/trunk/unlinked/kbulgrien/kbulgrien > > > > I am also at top of SVN. > > > > Kevin From kbulgrien at att.net Sat Jun 5 12:20:44 2010 From: kbulgrien at att.net (Kevin Bulgrien) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:20:44 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Revision: 13336 has broken CFDialog In-Reply-To: <201006040843.24942.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> References: <20100602202242.30bd411e@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> <201006031837.22840.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> <20100603180217.7ae64643@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> <201006040843.24942.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> Message-ID: <20100605122044.58a1f43c@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> > Hello. > > Could you please try with the attached CFDialog.py file? > Just in case, remove your existing CFDialog.pyc, and restart the server - for > some reason, changes to CFDialog.py aren't always taken into account without a > server restart, for some reason. > > I changed the "except Exception as error" line back to its original state. > > Thanks > > Nicolas NOTE: I had been only looking in the server logfile and saw no problems, but the server had been started with -detach. While testing this file, I started the server in a console. With the HEAD version of CFDialog.py, after my testing, I got messages in the console: $ crossfire-server Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/apps/crossfire/share/crossfire/maps/python/dialog/npc_dialog.py", line 45, in from CFDialog import DialogRule, Dialog, IncludeRule File "/home/apps/crossfire/share/crossfire/maps/python/CFDialog.py", line 304 except Exception as error: ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/apps/crossfire/share/crossfire/maps/python/dialog/npc_dialog.py", line 45, in from CFDialog import DialogRule, Dialog, IncludeRule File "/home/apps/crossfire/share/crossfire/maps/python/CFDialog.py", line 304 except Exception as error: ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax I guess there is a lesson here... that to really test, one needs to be sure to run the server in a console, or at least redirect stderr somewhere... > Le vendredi 04 juin 2010 01:02:17, Kevin Bulgrien a ?crit : > > > Hello. > > > > > > > This commit has broken dialogs. It is no longer possible to get out of > > > > scorn by saying a password, and it further appears that most CFDialogs > > > > are now completely disabled... > > > > > > > > Scorn quests, Goths Hintson... etc. No server messages are issued. > > > > The NPCs simply do not respond any more. > > > > > > > > I backed up to 13325 in the python folder and moved forward until it > > > > re-broke. This is the culprit. > > > > > > Using the latest SVN, all seems to work as expected, but I'm getting the > > > following warnings in the server logs: > > > > > > :104: DeprecationWarning: dict.has_key() not supported in 3.x; > > > use the in operator > > > (...)share/crossfire/maps/python/CFDialog.py:215: DeprecationWarning: > > > dict.has_key() not supported in 3.x; use the in operator > > > > > > if Crossfire.GetPrivateDictionary().has_key(key): > > > What Python version are you using? Would it be 3.x by any chance? ;) > > > > $ python --version > > Python 2.5.2 > > > > $ rpm -qa | grep python | grep 3 > > gnome-python-bonobo-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 > > python-rhpl-0.212-3mdv2009.0 > > python-reportlab-2.1-3mdv2009.0 > > python-celementtree-1.0.5-2.3mdv2009.0 > > gnome-python-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 > > python-dbus-0.83.0-1mdv2009.0 > > python-qt-3.17.4-1mdv2009.0 > > python-notify-0.1.1-3mdv2009.0 > > python-configobj-4.5.3-1mdv2009.0 > > gnome-python-canvas-2.22.3-1mdv2009.0 > > python-zope-interface-3.4.1-1mdv2009.0 > > > > $ svn status server maps > > ? server/trunk/svn-commit.tmp > > ? server/trunk/plugins/cf_darcap/Makefile.in > > ? server/trunk/plugins/cf_darcap/Makefile > > ? server/trunk/plugins/citylife/include/Makefile.in > > ? server/trunk/plugins/citylife/include/Makefile > > ? server/trunk/plugins/cfrhg/include/Makefile.in > > ? server/trunk/plugins/cfrhg/include/Makefile > > M server/trunk/include/autoconf.h.in > > ? server/trunk/utils/crossfire-mapper > > ? server/trunk/utils/cre/gmon.out > > ? server/trunk/utils/cre/cre.gch > > ? server/branches/1.x > > ? maps/trunk/pup_land/lone_town.invidious > > ? maps/trunk/pup_land/guilds/purple_butterfly.invidious > > ? maps/trunk/unlinked/kbulgrien/kbulgrien > > > > I am also at top of SVN. > > > > Kevin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > crossfire mailing list > > crossfire at metalforge.org > > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > > -- > Mon p'tit coin du web - http://nicolas.weeger.org From nicolas.weeger at laposte.net Sun Jun 6 03:33:35 2010 From: nicolas.weeger at laposte.net (Nicolas Weeger) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 10:33:35 +0200 Subject: [crossfire] Revision: 13336 has broken CFDialog In-Reply-To: <20100605121627.0d7bf6f6@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> References: <20100602202242.30bd411e@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> <201006040843.24942.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> <20100605121627.0d7bf6f6@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> Message-ID: <201006061033.39591.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> Hello. > This file works properly. I did svn update -r HEAD on CFDialog.py before > trying it just to confirm the dialogs were still not working. After > clearing the .pyc and restarting the server, I confirmed the NPCs were > broken. Then I put the attached file in its place, removed the .pyc, and > restarted the server. I tested with the Scorn port gate guard and Goth's > Hintson. Both worked fine. I committed this fix back to SVN. It would be useful to see precise error messages in included files for quests, but I guess they are small enough to be mostly all right :) Nicolas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://mailman.metalforge.org/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20100606/e5357b54/attachment.pgp From nicolas.weeger at laposte.net Sun Jun 6 03:46:23 2010 From: nicolas.weeger at laposte.net (Nicolas Weeger) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 10:46:23 +0200 Subject: [crossfire] Revision: 13336 has broken CFDialog In-Reply-To: <20100605122044.58a1f43c@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> References: <20100602202242.30bd411e@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> <201006040843.24942.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> <20100605122044.58a1f43c@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> Message-ID: <201006061046.26603.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> > I guess there is a lesson here... that to really test, one needs to be sure > to run the server in a console, or at least redirect stderr somewhere... The other lesson being to be sure to use statements compatible with all Python versions the server can use :) I'm not even sure there is a complete list, automake files require 2.4 minimum and seem to accept 3.x. Nicolas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://mailman.metalforge.org/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20100606/f2ea24d1/attachment.pgp From mwedel at sonic.net Mon Jun 7 00:10:49 2010 From: mwedel at sonic.net (Mark Wedel) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 22:10:49 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Revision: 13336 has broken CFDialog In-Reply-To: <201006061046.26603.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> References: <20100602202242.30bd411e@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> <201006040843.24942.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> <20100605122044.58a1f43c@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> <201006061046.26603.nicolas.weeger@laposte.net> Message-ID: <4C0C7F59.3090803@sonic.net> On 06/ 6/10 01:46 AM, Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> I guess there is a lesson here... that to really test, one needs to be sure >> to run the server in a console, or at least redirect stderr somewhere... > > The other lesson being to be sure to use statements compatible with all Python > versions the server can use :) This is true with all libraries one might use (for example for client, gtk could add some new functions to the library). But I suspect this is bigger issue for interpreted plugin languages, as the syntax can change or get extended. > > I'm not even sure there is a complete list, automake files require 2.4 minimum > and seem to accept 3.x. Looks like the server looks for 2.4->2.6, and 3.0->3.1 (macros/cfpython.m4) This is the actual search order: ,2.6,2.5,2.4,3.0,3.1 So it will use python 2 before python 3 is available, but I imagine that as time passes, more and more new distributions will only have python 3 by default. Unclear why 3.0 is used before 3.1 - I'd just think that 3.1 is probably more stable/has more bugs worked out than 3.0, but I could be wrong in that. From kbulgrien at att.net Mon Jun 7 22:51:11 2010 From: kbulgrien at att.net (Kevin Bulgrien) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 22:51:11 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] New arch dir for roads, paths, etc? Message-ID: <20100607225111.46cd3602@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> Does anyone have a particular objection to a factoring out of road/path arches from the wall directory? I find the association of walls with paths to be unhelpful if not actually bewildering. Wall is the last place I look for roads. This involves moving dirtroad, paved, footpath, yellow. It could also involve a move of footbridge and stonebridge from "construct". Bridge and drawbridge could move too, but as they are in the gwall set, so probably they are not that important to move. "travel" or "path" seem like reasonable folder names, though suggestions wil be entertained. Kevin From mwedel at sonic.net Mon Jun 7 23:20:12 2010 From: mwedel at sonic.net (Mark Wedel) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 21:20:12 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] New arch dir for roads, paths, etc? In-Reply-To: <20100607225111.46cd3602@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> References: <20100607225111.46cd3602@a850srvr.kbulgrien.att.net> Message-ID: <4C0DC4FC.2020100@sonic.net> On 06/ 7/10 08:51 PM, Kevin Bulgrien wrote: > Does anyone have a particular objection to a factoring out of road/path arches > from the wall directory? I find the association of walls with paths to be > unhelpful if not actually bewildering. Wall is the last place I look for > roads. > > This involves moving dirtroad, paved, footpath, yellow. I see no issue having a 'road' type directory. > > It could also involve a move of footbridge and stonebridge from "construct". Makes sense - construct isn't a great name, but it is what is there - buildings might have been a better name. > > Bridge and drawbridge could move too, but as they are in the gwall set, so > probably they are not that important to move. In some cases, it is a difficult question because stylistically, it may belong with gwall, but could also belong in other directories - I'm not sure the correct answer, other than to make sure pickmaps are used. > > "travel" or "path" seem like reasonable folder names, though suggestions wil > be entertained. > I'm not sure I like travel - that could be confusing with transport. But path or road seems fine.