From kevinz5000 at gmail.com Thu Jun 22 23:06:43 2017 From: kevinz5000 at gmail.com (Kevin Zheng) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 21:06:43 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal Message-ID: Hi there, It has now been 3 years since the last release. Since then we've accumulated a decent amount of fixes and improvements. To make it easier on packagers, and so that more people might benefit from these changes, I propose getting the ball rolling on cutting a new release. If there are no objections I'll get the ball rolling on this next week. Thanks, Kevin -- Kevin Zheng kevinz5000 at gmail.com | kevinz at berkeley.edu | PGP: 0xC22E1090 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 516 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mwedel at sonic.net Fri Jun 23 00:01:20 2017 From: mwedel at sonic.net (Mark Wedel) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 22:01:20 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5c2a8873-e6dc-f33d-c991-807eb9af7e34@sonic.net> On 06/22/2017 09:06 PM, Kevin Zheng wrote: > Hi there, > > It has now been 3 years since the last release. Since then we've > accumulated a decent amount of fixes and improvements. > > To make it easier on packagers, and so that more people might benefit > from these changes, I propose getting the ball rolling on cutting a new > release. > > If there are no objections I'll get the ball rolling on this next week. No objections from me. I have to admit that I've gotten sidetracked on other projects and really don't spend much time on crossfire anymore. I should probably transfer the admin/ownership rights in sourceforge to you or someone else that is more active than I am. From robert at timetraveller.org Fri Jun 23 00:30:21 2017 From: robert at timetraveller.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 15:30:21 +1000 (AEST) Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds exciting. About 18 months ago I sparked a discussion about an expanded Crossfire world I was developing. Well I went away and did that but wasn't willing to host it on a VPS (Linode, Digital Ocean) as the size of the world made this quite expensive. So I decided to wait until until my home was connected to the Australian National Broadband Network (NBN). Well that's happening on June 29. So, sometime in the next few weeks I'll launch the expanded world running on my NBN link. I'll update my expanded world with the new release before going live with it. The expanded world is 1000x1000 maps with the 'old world' (original world maps) positioned dead centre at 485-514 on each axis. As much as possible I've been automating the world building. I hope it offers different game play to keep people interested. Cheers, Rob On Thu, 22 Jun 2017, Kevin Zheng wrote: > Hi there, > > It has now been 3 years since the last release. Since then we've > accumulated a decent amount of fixes and improvements. > > To make it easier on packagers, and so that more people might benefit > from these changes, I propose getting the ball rolling on cutting a new > release. > > If there are no objections I'll get the ball rolling on this next week. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > From leaf at real-time.com Fri Jun 23 07:37:05 2017 From: leaf at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:37:05 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> Would/could/will the planned release include an .exe version of the GTK client for Windows? From kevinz5000 at gmail.com Fri Jun 23 08:40:59 2017 From: kevinz5000 at gmail.com (Kevin Zheng) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 06:40:59 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35726590-b6c8-14ea-1ea5-67da6835f60b@gmail.com> On 06/22/2017 22:30, Robert Brockway wrote: > About 18 months ago I sparked a discussion about an expanded Crossfire > world I was developing. Well I went away and did that but wasn't > willing to host it on a VPS (Linode, Digital Ocean) as the size of the > world made this quite expensive. So I decided to wait until until my > home was connected to the Australian National Broadband Network (NBN). > Well that's happening on June 29. So, sometime in the next few weeks > I'll launch the expanded world running on my NBN link. I'll update my > expanded world with the new release before going live with it. > > The expanded world is 1000x1000 maps with the 'old world' (original > world maps) positioned dead centre at 485-514 on each axis. > > As much as possible I've been automating the world building. I hope it > offers different game play to keep people interested. I think this could offer something to players who want to try something new. Is the new world compatible with the standard server and client? I remember some complaints from the Galactic Mileau folks that it was hard to get recent versions of the client/server running a custom world. Are there changes that would make this easier for you? -- Kevin Zheng kevinz5000 at gmail.com | kevinz at berkeley.edu | PGP: 0xC22E1090 From kevinz5000 at gmail.com Fri Jun 23 08:45:57 2017 From: kevinz5000 at gmail.com (Kevin Zheng) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 06:45:57 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> References: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> Message-ID: <21e87e1f-5a2a-a4cf-a7a3-bf20ca594442@gmail.com> On 06/23/2017 05:37, Rick Tanner wrote: > Would/could/will the planned release include an .exe version of the GTK > client for Windows? It's been a while since I've tried to build the GTK client on Windows, but I'll remember to give it a shot. -- Kevin Zheng kevinz5000 at gmail.com | kevinz at berkeley.edu | PGP: 0xC22E1090 From matthew at giassa.net Fri Jun 23 10:02:41 2017 From: matthew at giassa.net (Matthew Giassa) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 08:02:41 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: <21e87e1f-5a2a-a4cf-a7a3-bf20ca594442@gmail.com> References: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> <21e87e1f-5a2a-a4cf-a7a3-bf20ca594442@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20170623150241.zql47yextgwhcdv3@darkstar> Would it be worth migrating the project to GitHub, along with a copy of the HTML, assets, etc; for the real-time.com CF wiki? Issues wouldn't be migrated, but a more modern VCS could be employed. Also, has anyone tested how much bandwidth, disk space, etc; the latest stable release uses under a test load (i.e. a few users/players)? I don't mind chipping in for an AWS micro install as an alternative to someone having to dedicate a spare PC or VM as an in-house server. The biggest problem would likely be maps. Maybe we require users to download them in advance via apt/yum/tarball? Finally, who maintains the package currently available via `apt` on Ubuntu/Debian systems? The Ubuntu page notes that it is Kari Pahula [1]. Is this person a CF dev? -Matthew 1. "Package: crossfire-client (1.71.0-1.1) [universe]", From pc-crossfire06 at crowcastle.net Fri Jun 23 10:19:54 2017 From: pc-crossfire06 at crowcastle.net (Preston Crow) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:19:54 -0400 Subject: [crossfire] Crossfire maps idea Message-ID: <4af6aacc-93c3-40f0-f229-9d8febb71045@crowcastle.net> Seeing the discussion on this list, I thought I should toss out an idea I had. Some time ago, I was thinking about creating a set of underworld maps, tiled together much like the surface world maps. The difference is that they wouldn't necessarily be completely two-dimensional. You might have a set of maps tiled such that you could move in a spiral, entering maps that go underneath the map you were on four maps ago. I would want the main entrance to be a tile on the main world map where high mountains prevent access except through a canyon. The same idea could be used for a tower going up. I wanted to play with the idea and see how the client would react with the fog of war memory when you enter a map beneath the one you were recently on. Anyway, I never got around to implementing it, but I thought I would toss out the idea in case someone is inspired. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidnicholashurst at gmail.com Fri Jun 23 17:29:53 2017 From: davidnicholashurst at gmail.com (David Hurst) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 08:29:53 +1000 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: References: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> <21e87e1f-5a2a-a4cf-a7a3-bf20ca594442@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I'm currently using a 1.71 build of the gtk client on Windows 10. It works well with only two issues. 1. The Meta server doesn't work 2. The default numpad key bindings don't work and have to be bound manually. I'm happy to help bug test a gtk client (and the Java client) for this release. Given that all of the current clients (1.60?) for Windows are broken, I think this would be a really important step. Saru On 23 Jun. 2017 11:46 pm, "Kevin Zheng" wrote: On 06/23/2017 05:37, Rick Tanner wrote: > Would/could/will the planned release include an .exe version of the GTK > client for Windows? It's been a while since I've tried to build the GTK client on Windows, but I'll remember to give it a shot. -- Kevin Zheng kevinz5000 at gmail.com | kevinz at berkeley.edu | PGP: 0xC22E1090 _______________________________________________ crossfire mailing list crossfire at metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leaf at real-time.com Fri Jun 23 18:56:15 2017 From: leaf at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:56:15 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: <20170623150241.zql47yextgwhcdv3@darkstar> References: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> <21e87e1f-5a2a-a4cf-a7a3-bf20ca594442@gmail.com> <20170623150241.zql47yextgwhcdv3@darkstar> Message-ID: <774c2a3e-fecf-f3d7-596e-bafe6a147cdf@real-time.com> On 6/23/17 10:02 AM, Matthew Giassa wrote: > > Also, has anyone tested how much bandwidth, disk space, etc; the latest > stable release uses under a test load (i.e. a few users/players)? Disk space needed for (trunk only) source content: arch = 124M server = 39M maps = 549M After compiling the server: arch = 124M server = 163M maps = 549M I have some stats in regards to server resources. This is with Ubuntu 16.04 with 6 players running around various maps. >From my observations... crossfire-server requires 30.0 MiB of RAM to run when idle according to the server host System Monitor. Each player connected uses an additional ~3 MiB of RAM/ea just to move around and interact with the game world. When a player with hundreds (or thousands) of items in their apartment, guild maps, et al. first enters such a map, RAM utilization jumps dramatically. At the moment, I don't have a way to quantify these numbers. Each player requires/uses about 10 KiB/s of bandwidth. Some maps with lots of spell casting and monsters (i.e., Tower of Demonology, Hanuk) causes this to spike as high as 10MB/s or more while that map or spell effects are taking place. In a recent test session, I missed tracking total bandwidth sent and received. Highest use of CPU appears to be calculating damage from spell effects (especially comet and meteor) and/or magical attacks (dragons and large lightning or large ice storm, etc.) Disk space recommended for player files & unique map files, looking on Metalforge - there is currently 111M of active player content. There is 13 years of archived content that is a total of 651M (low 33M, high 123M). From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Fri Jun 23 19:29:55 2017 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 20:29:55 -0400 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: <5c2a8873-e6dc-f33d-c991-807eb9af7e34@sonic.net> References: <5c2a8873-e6dc-f33d-c991-807eb9af7e34@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20170624002955.GA6987@www.mrbrklyn.com> everytime someone has done something like that, they have regretted it. FWIW, our class was considering writing a nueral network for crossfire On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:01:20PM -0700, Mark Wedel wrote: > On 06/22/2017 09:06 PM, Kevin Zheng wrote: > >Hi there, > > > >It has now been 3 years since the last release. Since then we've > >accumulated a decent amount of fixes and improvements. > > > >To make it easier on packagers, and so that more people might benefit > >from these changes, I propose getting the ball rolling on cutting a new > >release. > > > >If there are no objections I'll get the ball rolling on this next week. > > No objections from me. I have to admit that I've gotten > sidetracked on other projects and really don't spend much time on > crossfire anymore. I should probably transfer the admin/ownership > rights in sourceforge to you or someone else that is more active > than I am. > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 From kevinz5000 at gmail.com Sat Jun 24 14:45:30 2017 From: kevinz5000 at gmail.com (Kevin Zheng) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 12:45:30 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: References: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> <21e87e1f-5a2a-a4cf-a7a3-bf20ca594442@gmail.com> Message-ID: <148d0c26-7dae-5e22-2626-177baea898c0@gmail.com> On 06/23/2017 15:29, David Hurst wrote: > Hi, I'm currently using a 1.71 build of the gtk client on Windows 10. It > works well with only two issues. > > 1. The Meta server doesn't work Because I didn't compile with Curl. > 2. The default numpad key bindings don't work and have to be bound manually. Not sure why this is happening; I might not be able to investigate that. > I'm happy to help bug test a gtk client (and the Java client) for this > release. Given that all of the current clients (1.60?) for Windows are > broken, I think this would be a really important step. Thanks for offering. I'll do my best to get a Windows build out. -- Kevin Zheng kevinz5000 at gmail.com | kevinz at berkeley.edu | PGP: 0xC22E1090 From mwedel at sonic.net Sat Jun 24 15:06:36 2017 From: mwedel at sonic.net (Mark Wedel) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 13:06:36 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: <774c2a3e-fecf-f3d7-596e-bafe6a147cdf@real-time.com> References: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> <21e87e1f-5a2a-a4cf-a7a3-bf20ca594442@gmail.com> <20170623150241.zql47yextgwhcdv3@darkstar> <774c2a3e-fecf-f3d7-596e-bafe6a147cdf@real-time.com> Message-ID: <2714d8c5-6b40-6252-ae51-59dd8c6473a0@sonic.net> On 06/23/2017 04:56 PM, Rick Tanner wrote: > On 6/23/17 10:02 AM, Matthew Giassa wrote: >> >> Also, has anyone tested how much bandwidth, disk space, etc; the latest >> stable release uses under a test load (i.e. a few users/players)? > > Disk space needed for (trunk only) source content: > > arch = 124M > server = 39M > maps = 549M > > After compiling the server: > > arch = 124M > server = 163M > maps = 549M > > I have some stats in regards to server resources. This is with Ubuntu > 16.04 with 6 players running around various maps. Disk space (and memory use) is pretty minimal for modern systems - the game goes back 20+ years, and while it has grown, it hasn't grown as much computer resources has. > > From my observations... > > crossfire-server requires 30.0 MiB of RAM to run when idle according to > the server host System Monitor. > > Each player connected uses an additional ~3 MiB of RAM/ea just to move > around and interact with the game world. > > When a player with hundreds (or thousands) of items in their apartment, > guild maps, et al. first enters such a map, RAM utilization jumps > dramatically. At the moment, I don't have a way to quantify these numbers. There is a sizeof command you can run, that dumps the sizes of various objects. IIRC, each object was ~500 bytes (sizes can also vary based on 32 bit/64 bit or other factors). A world map (50x50) perhaps has 5000 objects on it (2/space), but pretty easy for apartments or guild halls to easily exceed that. > > Each player requires/uses about 10 KiB/s of bandwidth. Some maps with > lots of spell casting and monsters (i.e., Tower of Demonology, Hanuk) > causes this to spike as high as 10MB/s or more while that map or spell > effects are taking place. In a recent test session, I missed tracking > total bandwidth sent and received. > > Highest use of CPU appears to be calculating damage from spell effects > (especially comet and meteor) and/or magical attacks (dragons and large > lightning or large ice storm, etc.) Yes, this is a problem with how the spells propagate - one spell can easy make hundreds or perhaps thousands of objects. That in itself may not be bad, but the insertion of each object and interactions with other objects chews up that cpu time. The other issue is that the game is only single threaded, so a massive spell burst (or loading a big map) slows everything down. 20 years ago, multi cpu (now core) systems were pretty rare, now they are commonplace. However, making the server multithreaded isn't a simple change. From matthew at giassa.net Sun Jun 25 10:18:31 2017 From: matthew at giassa.net (Matthew Giassa) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 08:18:31 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: <2714d8c5-6b40-6252-ae51-59dd8c6473a0@sonic.net> References: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> <21e87e1f-5a2a-a4cf-a7a3-bf20ca594442@gmail.com> <20170623150241.zql47yextgwhcdv3@darkstar> <774c2a3e-fecf-f3d7-596e-bafe6a147cdf@real-time.com> <2714d8c5-6b40-6252-ae51-59dd8c6473a0@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20170625151831.hugh6rn5rr4frtzp@darkstar> My guess is with meteor, let's assume 10 projectiles in rapid succession, each generating a 15 tile radius (approx) effect, that's about 10 * 700 = 7000 objects. How does the bandwidth shoot up to 10MB/s though? What is the minimal unit/"tick" of time the server uses? Finally, does the server employ any sort of compression when sending out this data, or is that impractical in such a case? Cheers! * Mark Wedel [2017-06-24 13:06:36 -0700]: >On 06/23/2017 04:56 PM, Rick Tanner wrote: >>On 6/23/17 10:02 AM, Matthew Giassa wrote: >>> >>>Also, has anyone tested how much bandwidth, disk space, etc; the latest >>>stable release uses under a test load (i.e. a few users/players)? >> >>Disk space needed for (trunk only) source content: >> >>arch = 124M >>server = 39M >>maps = 549M >> >>After compiling the server: >> >>arch = 124M >>server = 163M >>maps = 549M >> >>I have some stats in regards to server resources. This is with Ubuntu >>16.04 with 6 players running around various maps. > > Disk space (and memory use) is pretty minimal for modern systems - >the game goes back 20+ years, and while it has grown, it hasn't grown >as much computer resources has. > >> >>From my observations... >> >>crossfire-server requires 30.0 MiB of RAM to run when idle according to >>the server host System Monitor. >> >>Each player connected uses an additional ~3 MiB of RAM/ea just to move >>around and interact with the game world. >> >>When a player with hundreds (or thousands) of items in their apartment, >>guild maps, et al. first enters such a map, RAM utilization jumps >>dramatically. At the moment, I don't have a way to quantify these numbers. > > There is a sizeof command you can run, that dumps the sizes of various objects. > >IIRC, each object was ~500 bytes (sizes can also vary based on 32 >bit/64 bit or other factors). A world map (50x50) perhaps has 5000 >objects on it (2/space), but pretty easy for apartments or guild halls >to easily exceed that. > >> >>Each player requires/uses about 10 KiB/s of bandwidth. Some maps with >>lots of spell casting and monsters (i.e., Tower of Demonology, Hanuk) >>causes this to spike as high as 10MB/s or more while that map or spell >>effects are taking place. In a recent test session, I missed tracking >>total bandwidth sent and received. >> >>Highest use of CPU appears to be calculating damage from spell effects >>(especially comet and meteor) and/or magical attacks (dragons and large >>lightning or large ice storm, etc.) > > Yes, this is a problem with how the spells propagate - one spell can >easy make hundreds or perhaps thousands of objects. That in itself >may not be bad, but the insertion of each object and interactions with >other objects chews up that cpu time. > > The other issue is that the game is only single threaded, so a >massive spell burst (or loading a big map) slows everything down. 20 >years ago, multi cpu (now core) systems were pretty rare, now they are >commonplace. However, making the server multithreaded isn't a simple >change. > >_______________________________________________ >crossfire mailing list >crossfire at metalforge.org >http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire From mwedel at sonic.net Sun Jun 25 23:22:17 2017 From: mwedel at sonic.net (Mark Wedel) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 21:22:17 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: <20170625151831.hugh6rn5rr4frtzp@darkstar> References: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> <21e87e1f-5a2a-a4cf-a7a3-bf20ca594442@gmail.com> <20170623150241.zql47yextgwhcdv3@darkstar> <774c2a3e-fecf-f3d7-596e-bafe6a147cdf@real-time.com> <2714d8c5-6b40-6252-ae51-59dd8c6473a0@sonic.net> <20170625151831.hugh6rn5rr4frtzp@darkstar> Message-ID: <0f8d9bf4-cfed-e311-3383-87866adc3133@sonic.net> On 06/25/2017 08:18 AM, Matthew Giassa wrote: > My guess is with meteor, let's assume 10 projectiles in rapid > succession, each generating a 15 tile radius (approx) effect, that's > about 10 * 700 = 7000 objects. How does the bandwidth shoot up to > 10MB/s though? What is the minimal unit/"tick" of time the server uses? 120 ms is the tick time. However, spells (unfortunately), do not move that simply. If one takes a cone (simpler) that is cast to the right, it becomes / (a) -- (b) \ (c) So on the next tick, when a moves more, it adds an object in the same direction (upper right) as a, as well as an object directly right. Object b creates 3 new objects (in directions/spaces a,b,c), and c creates another one in c direction as well as b. A nice side effect of this is that something in the middle of the cone takes more damage at the edges, becaus there are more damage causing objects in the middle. But it means that for an even modest sized cone, it can be a lot of objects (there is some merging logic, but a lot of these can not be merged. A better approach, would be that when that cone is cast, an invisible object is put on the map at the origin point that records various import details (direction, how long, etc). Then, each ticket, it just extends the cone to the next space as needed, inserting only the objects as needed on those new spaces. Then, the number of objects used would match exactly the number of spaces the object is on. Merging may not be possible, because of different durations (the first fire effects would burn out before the second. Though this could perhaps even be handled by recording that information in each effect, eg, a fire object may contain data saying it does 20 damage and burns out in 8 ticks, but within that, says 6 damage burns out in 5 ticks, so that for the last 3 ticks,the spell does 14 instead of 20, etc. But none of that is a trivial change. I'm not quite sure why the bandwidth would go that high - the map information is tried to be done efficiently (only send changed data, and each map space isn't a huge number of bytes). However, I suppose if the fireball is killing a bunch of creatures and burning up a bunch of objects, the map is actually changing considerably. > > Finally, does the server employ any sort of compression when sending out > this data, or is that impractical in such a case? I think this was investigated, but never done. One has to make sure that adding the compression does not add more latency, which may mean that there are many small chunks of data compressed. Note also that bandwidth used is going to be pretty directly related to the size of the map - a 25x25 is going to use up about 4x the bandwidth of a 13x13 in highly dynamic content, simply because it has that many spaces. From leaf at real-time.com Mon Jun 26 11:24:08 2017 From: leaf at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 11:24:08 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Expanded World Map (was: Release proposal) Message-ID: <7f999ff6-1bce-9c18-5386-d07075cf67eb@real-time.com> On 6/23/17 12:30 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: > > About 18 months ago I sparked a discussion about an expanded Crossfire > world I was developing. > > > The expanded world is 1000x1000 maps with the 'old world' (original > world maps) positioned dead centre at 485-514 on each axis. Do you plan on listing your server on the metaserver list? Are there more dungeons, cities, etc. in your expanded world? Or, just more distance to travel and explore between known map locations such as dungeons, cities, et al.? Curiosity question.. Is mapper able to crawl and index your expanded world content without any problems? From leaf at real-time.com Mon Jun 26 11:31:11 2017 From: leaf at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 11:31:11 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Release proposal In-Reply-To: <20170623150241.zql47yextgwhcdv3@darkstar> References: <6d3a9a18-495d-fdac-4d64-df7aba248656@real-time.com> <21e87e1f-5a2a-a4cf-a7a3-bf20ca594442@gmail.com> <20170623150241.zql47yextgwhcdv3@darkstar> Message-ID: On 6/23/17 10:02 AM, Matthew Giassa wrote: > > Finally, who maintains the package currently available via `apt` on > Ubuntu/Debian systems? The Ubuntu page notes that it is Kari Pahula [1]. > Is this person a CF dev? *IF* it is someone else, I am not aware of it. To my knowledge Kari Pahula has only done packaging work on the client and server content. They are not listed on the SourceForge project team. From leaf at real-time.com Mon Jun 26 11:39:35 2017 From: leaf at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 11:39:35 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Crossfire maps idea In-Reply-To: <4af6aacc-93c3-40f0-f229-9d8febb71045@crowcastle.net> References: <4af6aacc-93c3-40f0-f229-9d8febb71045@crowcastle.net> Message-ID: <1fd44948-fc19-7f3d-1820-3687946bf72d@real-time.com> On 6/23/17 10:19 AM, Preston Crow wrote: > > Some time ago, I was thinking about creating a set of underworld maps, > tiled together much like the surface world maps. The difference is that > they wouldn't necessarily be completely two-dimensional. You might have > a set of maps tiled such that you could move in a spiral, entering maps > that go underneath the map you were on four maps ago. I would want the > main entrance to be a tile on the main world map where high mountains > prevent access except through a canyon. The Church of Valriel map in Scorn tries to mimic this with the balcony/overlook on the second level. http://www.crossfireatlas.net/scorn/temples/valriel.html http://www.crossfireatlas.net/scorn/temples/valriel2.html Using the above map as an example, it sounds like you would want the players on the second level to see any & all map changes (i.e., removing chairs on level 1 show the chairs gone with on level 2 balcony) when they go to that level? Or, did you have something different in mind?