From leaf at real-time.com Thu Sep 9 14:23:10 2021 From: leaf at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 14:23:10 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Purge old Windows client snapshots on SourceForge? Message-ID: <04f1142a-f362-0f0c-1ae9-513345b79c1c@real-time.com> Hello, I am asking for feedback on purging old Windows based GTK Client snapshots on SourceForge. https://sourceforge.net/projects/crossfire/files/crossfire-client/snapshot/ Releases range from 2004 to 2020-October. Per a discussion on Discord, there are recent client builds that could replace what is available right now, which I will upload to SF. 2021-09-09T18:55:14.858Z 8.9 MB CrossfireClient-git-9f0126c.exe 2021-09-09T18:55:12.880Z 0.2 kB CrossfireClient-git-9f0126c.sha256 2021-09-09T18:55:15.656Z 8.9 MB CrossfireClient-git-e6dde58.exe 2021-09-09T18:55:16.281Z 0.2 kB CrossfireClient-git-e6dde58.sha256 Any concerns or discussion to add to this proposal? From nicolas.weeger at laposte.net Sun Sep 12 07:39:22 2021 From: nicolas.weeger at laposte.net (Nicolas Weeger) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2021 14:39:22 +0200 Subject: [crossfire] Purge old Windows client snapshots on SourceForge? In-Reply-To: <04f1142a-f362-0f0c-1ae9-513345b79c1c@real-time.com> References: <04f1142a-f362-0f0c-1ae9-513345b79c1c@real-time.com> Message-ID: <2819147.fFbIxFR6nn@gros> Hello. > I am asking for feedback on purging old Windows based GTK Client > snapshots on SourceForge. Fine with me, thanks for the maintenance :) For what is worth, I've setup daily builds of JXClient Windows installer, available at http://crossfire.weeger.org/ Best regards Nicolas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From nkipps at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 12:09:41 2021 From: nkipps at gmail.com (Nathaniel Kipps) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 13:09:41 -0400 Subject: [crossfire] Bigworld and Pupland In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I guess no feedback for two weeks means no objections! :) Here's my thoughts on the questions I asked: > Should Pupland be part of the main continent, a separate continent, or > on a separate plane entirely? I was hoping to put it on it's own continent, but a fallback is to put it on it's own plane, ostensibly "on the other side of the world." > Should Pupland be east or west of the current Bigworld? Common consensus is that it is traditionally just West of Scorn. However, I'd like to put it East of the current continent altogether, in alignment with it being a more "exotic" place, as well as only reachable by dragon, at least from Scorn. > Should Pupland be its current size, larger, or smaller? See the > attached image for a reference of how it would look if it was > immediately scaled to bigworld proportions. I'd like to make it bigger, lifting heavily from Lalo's theorycrafting on the wiki. More (or any) feedback is welcome. --DraugTheWhopper On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 1:56 PM Nathaniel Kipps wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'd like to gather a little feedback before attempting (yet again) to > bigworldify pupland. A few questions: > > Are there any reasons *not* to bigworldify pupland? For example: > respecting the author's design choices, someone else is working on it > already, or even just plain nostalgia. > > Should Pupland be part of the main continent, a separate continent, or > on a separate plane entirely? > > Should Pupland be east or west of the current Bigworld? > > Should Pupland be its current size, larger, or smaller? See the > attached image for a reference of how it would look if it was > immediately scaled to bigworld proportions. > > Thoughts on these and any other related topics would be greatly > appreciated. I am aware that Lalo did quite a lot of work and > theorycrafting, and I'm taking this into account already. Comments on > his work on the wiki > (http://wiki.metalforge.net/dokuwiki/doku.php/dev_todo:pupland) are > appreciated as well. > > --DraugTheWhopper From nkipps at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 22:37:48 2021 From: nkipps at gmail.com (Nathaniel Kipps) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 23:37:48 -0400 Subject: [crossfire] Bigworld and Pupland In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Per Leaf, my original email was oversize, and so silently quarantined. You can of course read it below, and here's a link to the image I originally attached: https://i.imgur.com/xwckXf3.png --DraugTheWhopper On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 1:09 PM Nathaniel Kipps wrote: > > I guess no feedback for two weeks means no objections! :) > > Here's my thoughts on the questions I asked: > > > Should Pupland be part of the main continent, a separate continent, or > > on a separate plane entirely? > > I was hoping to put it on it's own continent, but a fallback is to put > it on it's own plane, ostensibly "on the other side of the world." > > > Should Pupland be east or west of the current Bigworld? > > Common consensus is that it is traditionally just West of Scorn. > However, I'd like to put it East of the current continent altogether, > in alignment with it being a more "exotic" place, as well as only > reachable by dragon, at least from Scorn. > > > Should Pupland be its current size, larger, or smaller? See the > > attached image for a reference of how it would look if it was > > immediately scaled to bigworld proportions. > > I'd like to make it bigger, lifting heavily from Lalo's theorycrafting > on the wiki. > > More (or any) feedback is welcome. > > --DraugTheWhopper > > On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 1:56 PM Nathaniel Kipps wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'd like to gather a little feedback before attempting (yet again) to > > bigworldify pupland. A few questions: > > > > Are there any reasons *not* to bigworldify pupland? For example: > > respecting the author's design choices, someone else is working on it > > already, or even just plain nostalgia. > > > > Should Pupland be part of the main continent, a separate continent, or > > on a separate plane entirely? > > > > Should Pupland be east or west of the current Bigworld? > > > > Should Pupland be its current size, larger, or smaller? See the > > attached image for a reference of how it would look if it was > > immediately scaled to bigworld proportions. > > > > Thoughts on these and any other related topics would be greatly > > appreciated. I am aware that Lalo did quite a lot of work and > > theorycrafting, and I'm taking this into account already. Comments on > > his work on the wiki > > (http://wiki.metalforge.net/dokuwiki/doku.php/dev_todo:pupland) are > > appreciated as well. > > > > --DraugTheWhopper From robert at timetraveller.org Tue Sep 14 00:28:19 2021 From: robert at timetraveller.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 15:28:19 +1000 (AEST) Subject: [crossfire] Bigworld and Pupland In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Sep 2021, Nathaniel Kipps wrote: > Per Leaf, my original email was oversize, and so silently quarantined. > You can of course read it below, and here's a link to the image I > originally attached: > > https://i.imgur.com/xwckXf3.png Ah cool. I was wondering why I didn't receive your original email. I haven't been playing much lately but will be getting back to it once I finish up a major project in a few weeks. I've experimented off and on with large worlds with additional continents. I've settled on a 1000x500 map ring shaped world. The top and bottom 10 maps will be impassable with another 40 maps of frigid wasteland. The north will be populated (the home of the Northmen) while the south will be desolate. The maps can be traversed east-west in a ring. I'll also have a religious group that believes that enlightenment can be obtained by viewing the edge of the world. As such they will have a remote monastary in the far north. When it's done in a few weeks I'll add it to the metaserver. In any case I'm in favour of Pupland becoming a new continent. I have a few landmasses specled around my world already. I'll email them to Nathaniel to see if he wants to use any of them. Cheers, Rob > --DraugTheWhopper > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 1:09 PM Nathaniel Kipps wrote: >> >> I guess no feedback for two weeks means no objections! :) >> >> Here's my thoughts on the questions I asked: >> >>> Should Pupland be part of the main continent, a separate continent, or >>> on a separate plane entirely? >> >> I was hoping to put it on it's own continent, but a fallback is to put >> it on it's own plane, ostensibly "on the other side of the world." >> >>> Should Pupland be east or west of the current Bigworld? >> >> Common consensus is that it is traditionally just West of Scorn. >> However, I'd like to put it East of the current continent altogether, >> in alignment with it being a more "exotic" place, as well as only >> reachable by dragon, at least from Scorn. >> >>> Should Pupland be its current size, larger, or smaller? See the >>> attached image for a reference of how it would look if it was >>> immediately scaled to bigworld proportions. >> >> I'd like to make it bigger, lifting heavily from Lalo's theorycrafting >> on the wiki. >> >> More (or any) feedback is welcome. >> >> --DraugTheWhopper >> >> On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 1:56 PM Nathaniel Kipps wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I'd like to gather a little feedback before attempting (yet again) to >>> bigworldify pupland. A few questions: >>> >>> Are there any reasons *not* to bigworldify pupland? For example: >>> respecting the author's design choices, someone else is working on it >>> already, or even just plain nostalgia. >>> >>> Should Pupland be part of the main continent, a separate continent, or >>> on a separate plane entirely? >>> >>> Should Pupland be east or west of the current Bigworld? >>> >>> Should Pupland be its current size, larger, or smaller? See the >>> attached image for a reference of how it would look if it was >>> immediately scaled to bigworld proportions. >>> >>> Thoughts on these and any other related topics would be greatly >>> appreciated. I am aware that Lalo did quite a lot of work and >>> theorycrafting, and I'm taking this into account already. Comments on >>> his work on the wiki >>> (http://wiki.metalforge.net/dokuwiki/doku.php/dev_todo:pupland) are >>> appreciated as well. >>> >>> --DraugTheWhopper > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > From nicolas.weeger at laposte.net Fri Sep 17 12:28:10 2021 From: nicolas.weeger at laposte.net (Nicolas Weeger) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2021 19:28:10 +0200 Subject: [crossfire] Localisation Message-ID: <2925611.UAcujaeT1G@gros> Hello. I'd like to overhaul the translation / localisation system. So searching good ideas & suggestions & comments :) My goal is to be able to handle: - singular / plural / variants (some languages have more forms apparently) - genders - other special cases. For instance in English "the bow" and "the bows", but in French "l'arc" and "les arcs" Here's what I thought of so far. For archetypes and objects, add a language specifier for "name", "message", other language-dependant fields. Remove the "name_pl" field, merge it into "name". Add a common "gender" field, and a "special" field per language. "special" will have a meaning varying between languages, so for French it'd indicate the name can be used with "l'" at singular form but "les" in plural form, and other variants (proper name in English, for instance, which shouldn't have a "the" in front of it). The "name" will contain everything needed to write the correct form based on the number of items. The same principle will apply to quest messages, messages in maps, and such. For server-side messages, same principle, messages will contain all information needed to properly display things. I'm considering using the ICU4C library, https://github.com/unicode-org/icu but of course other options would be fine :) Using that library, a name could be for instance (I think it's correct, but didn't actually test) en: {0,choice,=1#bow|1<#bows} fr: {0,choice,=1#arc|1<#arcs} Ok, it isn't too user-friendly, but we'd manage - "constant" messages would be easier of course :p For the server-side messages, I currently only have thought of a slightly "heavy" way to format messages, given that the C API of ICU isn't too user- friendly. Thinking of something like (pseudo-code): esrv_send_message(message_add_object(message_create("{0} entered the game"}), pl)) with the "message" functions handling the interface with ICU. (in C++ or Java it'd be chained builders, same principle here) Thanks for reading this long mail ;) Nicolas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From mwedel at sonic.net Fri Sep 17 23:19:39 2021 From: mwedel at sonic.net (Mark Wedel) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2021 21:19:39 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Localisation In-Reply-To: <2925611.UAcujaeT1G@gros> References: <2925611.UAcujaeT1G@gros> Message-ID: <21a91d4d-fa1c-466f-89b1-885a7e575077@sonic.net> On 9/17/21 10:28 AM, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > > I'd like to overhaul the translation / localisation system. So searching good > ideas & suggestions & comments :) so the reason that I added the name_pl many years ago is that in English, there were various 'one off' cases that were not easy to handle. Before, logic was basically: - Most plurals just need an s added (sword -> swords) - If it ends in y, tends to need to be replaced by ies (ruby -> rubies). I think there might have been a flag to handle that. But there are other words where this logic is not sufficient (die -> dice is one that comes to mind - I think there were some others which followed yet different rules). So in the end, it became simpler on the code side just to have a different field with the plural name, instead of the code itself having to do a bunch of stuff to make a proper plural. I think the other cases where things became complicated are more complex names, 1 foo of bar -> 2 foos of bar, which became yet another case (and now once again, rules for the first name have to be covered - ruby of greatness -> rubies of greatness. I'm not quite sure what using the library, and adding to add in gender field and special fields, etc, is a simpler solution - it in fact looks more complicated - from a person making arches (who may not be much a programmer), having {en,fr,de,...}_{name,name_pl} seems simpler. It becomes 'Oh, I know the proper German plural for this name, so I just need to add a de_name_pl with it to the arch and are done, and do not need to thing about gender field, special fields, etc. From nicolas.weeger at laposte.net Sat Sep 18 13:38:43 2021 From: nicolas.weeger at laposte.net (Nicolas Weeger) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2021 20:38:43 +0200 Subject: [crossfire] Bigworld and Pupland In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17181437.gi62YRLo67@gros> Hello. > > Should Pupland be part of the main continent, a separate continent, or > > on a separate plane entirely? > > I was hoping to put it on it's own continent, but a fallback is to put > it on it's own plane, ostensibly "on the other side of the world." I'd say on its own continent, part of bigworld (even if we have to add empty water for many maps to make it really far). Of course past Pupland is another matter :) > > Should Pupland be east or west of the current Bigworld? > > Common consensus is that it is traditionally just West of Scorn. > However, I'd like to put it East of the current continent altogether, > in alignment with it being a more "exotic" place, as well as only > reachable by dragon, at least from Scorn. Well, both are fine by me. Note there are already many places on the east (whaling output and azumauindo notably). > > Should Pupland be its current size, larger, or smaller? See the > > attached image for a reference of how it would look if it was > > immediately scaled to bigworld proportions. > > I'd like to make it bigger, lifting heavily from Lalo's theorycrafting > on the wiki. Bigger is fine if it has enough content to warrant it - we already have enough empty places to fill :p Best regards Nicolas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: