CF: Progression (was Re: Goth's tavern)

[Raphaël Quinet <>]

Anthony Thyssen wrote:
>  * What do people suggest as a first place for a starting character to
>    visit after finishing the low level dungeons on Scorn.
> 
>    And if that is beyond the gate, why is that password protected and
>    NOT the port. Prehaps the port should be moved to a town accross
>    the contenent. Or scorn split into two citys a inland one (just)
>    and a port town, so you have to leave scorn before you can reach the
>    port. Under city dungeons could still connect the two.

People have been adding ships in the port (and dragon transports) because
it was a convenient place to add an exit to another city or island.  It
is convenient because Scorn is where all new characters start, and this
is where you are teleported by the "word of recall".  Linking a new map
from Scorn makes testing easier for the map designers and it also ensures
that other players will find the new maps easily, because everybody checks
these ships once in a while.

But this is NOT a good idea for playbalance and for the learning curve of
beginners, who will easily get lost in the new maps (and will most likely
get killed in a few seconds by monsters and traps that are way beyond
their level).  NONE of these ships and dragons should be available to a
player that does not already know the password for the gates.

In the latest version, the new black ship in the port can lead to Santo
Dominion in two hops, and from there you can reach the whole continent in
a few seconds.  This makes the gates totally useless!

The starting city really needs some work.  Most map designers are
interested in building maps for levels above 10 or 20 because this is fun
for their own characters, but little is done for creating an easy
learning path for beginners.  Maybe the lack of good maps is due to the
current map editor, which is not very intuitive and lacks some useful
tools (e.g. an easy way to see all the magic ears, magic mouths, pedestals
and other hidden switches in a map, or a tool that shows all objects
connected to a given switch).  I hope that the GTK editor will solve some
of these problems and I am glad to hear that some people are working on
this.  I hope that I will also have the time to contribute a bit.

I have some ideas for improvements in the game:

- As you mentioned, splitting the port area from the center of Scorn would
  be a good idea.  Maybe there could be a second gate there, with the same
  password as the first one.  As a matter of fact, some of the other
  cities could also have a "city password" that is valid for several gates.
  A password is better than a key in this case, because the experienced
  players would simply remember the password instead of having to solve
  the same quests again and again.  The important thing is that the
  first-time players would not have access to all maps before they have
  solved the basic quests.

- There should be an easy way for the player to know if a map is going to
  be too hard or to easy, and this should not be done by typing 'maps.  ;)
  I think it would be nice to add a new archetype similar to the existing
  signs, but which displays the map level, extracted automatically from
  the map info.  It would then be easy to add this standard sign to the
  existing with little effort.  I will try to have a look at that during
  this week if Mark is not already working on it...

- The temptation for a map designer to link everyhing to Scorn would
  disappear if there was more than one starting city or if the "word of
  recall" could bring the player back to a different place.  I think that
  it will take a while before we have several nice, balanced starting
  cities for the different races, but maybe we could already have
  different destinations for the "word of recall" depending on which cult
  the player chooses.  Since bringing the player back (by "word of recall"
  or resurrection after death) is an action of the players' god, then it
  would make sense to bring the player back to the main temple of his
  cult.  This would require two changes: first, the path to the point of
  resurrection/recall should be part of the player structure; second,
  there should be an archetype that is only found in temples and that
  changes this info in the player structure.  The special altars (those
  that are already aligned) would be good candidates for this: selecting
  a cult by praying on an altar would at the same time change the
  destination of the "word of recall".

- It is important to provide a linear progression for the beginners.  It
  is better for a first-time player to be stuck in a city which has only
  10-20 maps to available than to be allowed to visit the whole world
  and to be lost without knowing which maps provide an interesing
  challenge at this level.  As I mentioned above, doors/gates with
  passwords are good for this, because an experienced player can bypass
  the simple quests easily.  If more starting cities are added to CF,
  I think they should all be separated in three areas:
  * newbies area (levels 1-4)
    - A dozen houses or dungeons in which the player can get some exp.
    - One or two maps that are for level 5 or better and are clearly
      marked as such.  These maps can show some of the better monsters,
      and the player can try his luck there if he really wants to.
    - One or two small shops (the starting city for a wizard would
      contain a magic shop, but the starting cave for an orc would not)
    - A library, if the player starts with the litteracy skill.
    - One or two taverns in which the player can learn some tricks by
      talking to people.  One of them should have "beds to reality".
    - A gate to the next area.  The password can be found in a tavern
      or at the end of one of the houses or caves.
  * intermediate area (levels 5-9)
    - More maps (10-20 of them), including at least one or two quests
      that require the player to talk to people and to use some objects
      found in one map to open an area in another map.
    - Again, a couple of maps that have monsters of (much) higher level
      so that the player can have a look at them.
    - All shops (weapons, armour, magic, ...).
    - Some temples.  It is not necessary to have temples in the newbies
      area, except maybe for characters starting with the praying skill.
    - The appartments, so that players can leave their stuff somewhere.
    - A gate to the outside world.
  * outside world (levels 10 and higher + other cities)
    - Anything goes here.  The starting map of each quest should give
      some indication of the expected level.

Phew!  I should have split this mail in smaller pieces.  Thanks for
reading so far.  If you reply to only one part of this mail, please
consider changing the subject appropriately.

-Raphaël
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