Re: Classes and Races, was Re: CF: Alternate proposal: MARK the power crystals

[(Raphael Quinet)]

On Fri, 03 Sep 1999, Mark Wedel <> wrote:
> David Andrew Michael Noelle wrote:
> >     I believe the direction we're going is away from pre-defined character
> > classes and more toward skills based on usage.  If you want to start out as
> > a fighter and learn magic later, go ahead.  Your initial choice will
> > determine your maximum natural stats though, so a fighter who later becomes
> > a wizard will need several more +Power artifacts to get the same number of
> > spell points.
> 
>  Are we really going in that direction?  

I'm not sure, but I think that we should.  I don't mean that every
character should be able to become good at whatever its owner wants it
to do (starting as a figther and evolving as a spellcaster should have
some drawbacks).  But I mean that we should go away from the
pre-defined classes (not races) and have a system in which the
character evolves and becomes more specialized.

[...]
>  The starting classes/races should probably be done.  Lets really
> make them the races, and get rid of some of the classes (cleric,
> mage, monk, ninja, priest, swashbuckler, thief, and perhaps viking).
> I leave in barbarian as a type of race - it could be argued the
> viking is also in that category.
> 
> Ideal solution is to have both race and class.
> 
> Race would determine stat adjustments (and various regen rates).
> Class would determine starting skills and equipment.

If you remember the proposal that I posted some time ago about
changing the character creation system and introducing mini-quests for
building up a character, this is more or less what I was suggesting.
Here is the last paragraph from the message that I posted on the 30th
of April in the thread titled "Some ideas for Crossfire" (see the mail
archive on crossfire.real-time.com):

- If we have at least one mini-quest for each character class, we
  could even remove the stat modifiers that are based on the class.
  Maybe we could just keep some modifiers that are based only on the
  race, but the class and the corresponding skills and stats would be
  entirely determined by the mini-quest that you choose when starting
  the game.  So if you start with a human character (regardless of the
  face that you choose) and select one of the mini-quests based on
  magic, you would get the spellcasting skill at the beginning of the
  quest, as well as some bonus in Int and Pow during the quest.
  Similarly, if you choose a mini-quest based on fighting skills, you
  could get the missile weapons skill and some bonus in Con, Str and
  Dex.  Special classes like the monk could also have their own quest
  (for the meditation skill).  Some quests might have to be restricted
  to some specific races: for example, the quest giving the flame
  touch skill would only be accessible to non-humans (fireborn, but
  maybe also quetzalcoatl).

The idea is that you would choose the race of your character when you
create it, but the class would be something that is given to your
character later.  Maybe the title of your character could be modified
depending on which skill you learn first?  I also liked the idea of
introducing guilds for training your character and removing skill
scrolls completely (they do not make sense in real life anyway), so
maybe joining a guild would set your class and change your title.

So IMHO, the only real races would be the following:
- human
- barbarian (maybe)
- dwarf
- elf
- half-orc
- fireborn
- quetzalcoatl
- wraith

And the classes would depend on your primary skill.  I tried to create
some ASCII graph in which the three main nodes are skills, and the
relative position of each class represents its affinity for these
skills.  Note that ninja and thief are based more on the agility than
on the physical skill.

                     warrior
                   (physical)
                  /ninja thief\
                 /             \
                /               \
               /  cleric         \
         monk /                   \
             /          mage       \
      (praying)----------------(spellcasting)
        priest                    wizard 

Some of the existing character races/classes do not fit in the picture
very well, and maybe they should be dropped.  The ones that are not
listed so far as a race or a class are:
- halfling (could be a race, but what is unique about it?)
- swashbuckler
- viking

>  It could be said that some classes should be limited - not all
> races.  On the other hand, if that fireborn wants to become a
> fighter, good luck to him.

Yes.  The last three races in the above list (fireborn, quetzalcoatl
and wraith) are special races that are already very specialized and
would not be suitable for all classes.

-Raphael

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