Re: Classes and Races, was Re: CF: Alternate proposal: MARK the power crystals

[Mark Wedel <>]

Raphael Quinet wrote:
>
> I'm not sure, but I think that we should.  I don't mean that every
> character should be able to become good at whatever its owner wants it
> to do (starting as a figther and evolving as a spellcaster should have
> some drawbacks).  But I mean that we should go away from the
> pre-defined classes (not races) and have a system in which the
> character evolves and becomes more specialized.

 I'm a bit more ambivalant about long term playing and how skills work out. 
Mainly, I was thinking that starting class/race/whatever should be relevant for
at least a few levels (maybe level 5 or somethng?)  

 OTOH, if you may changing more difficult and have initial choice mean something
for most the duration, you can potentially have more repeat play value by trying
out a different race/class.  As it is now, at level 10 or so, a character can
have most all the classes/skills they want, so there is really no replay value
for the mainstream races (except hitting areas you missed).


> - If we have at least one mini-quest for each character class, we
>   could even remove the stat modifiers that are based on the class.
>   Maybe we could just keep some modifiers that are based only on the
>   race, but the class and the corresponding skills and stats would be
>   entirely determined by the mini-quest that you choose when starting
>   the game.  So if you start with a human character (regardless of the
>   face that you choose) and select one of the mini-quests based on
>   magic, you would get the spellcasting skill at the beginning of the
>   quest, as well as some bonus in Int and Pow during the quest.
>   Similarly, if you choose a mini-quest based on fighting skills, you
>   could get the missile weapons skill and some bonus in Con, Str and
>   Dex.  Special classes like the monk could also have their own quest
>   (for the meditation skill).  Some quests might have to be restricted
>   to some specific races: for example, the quest giving the flame
>   touch skill would only be accessible to non-humans (fireborn, but
>   maybe also quetzalcoatl).

 Note that the above could mostly be done without mini quests - choose a race,
then choose a class, and the class it what determines you starting
skills/spells/whatever.

 As I said before, race should really be the determining element in terms of
stat adjustments/maximum stats/etc.  I don't see a big reason why class would
change that stuff.

> 
> The idea is that you would choose the race of your character when you
> create it, but the class would be something that is given to your
> character later.  Maybe the title of your character could be modified
> depending on which skill you learn first?  I also liked the idea of
> introducing guilds for training your character and removing skill
> scrolls completely (they do not make sense in real life anyway), so
> maybe joining a guild would set your class and change your title.

 That could work.  Certainly doing that actually adds some meaning to the guild
halls.  And the guild halls could also be sources of quests in their own right
(prove yourself worthy be bringing back and XXX, and I'll teach you yyyy)

 One question, that would make things more complex, but maybe more interesting,
is add training for levels in the game?  Right now, you gain a level, you get
all the advantages right then, no matter where you are.

 It would certainly be more interesting to have to go to a guild hall to train,
but at the same time, you get some more choices/refinements in the skills (right
now there are not many skills, but more could perhaps be added or add
subdivisions?)  So you could train yourself in specific weapons or areas of
magic.  OTOH, this may just add a lot more complication in both code and playing
for the current gains.

> 
> So IMHO, the only real races would be the following:
> - human
> - barbarian (maybe)
> - dwarf
> - elf
> - half-orc
> - fireborn
> - quetzalcoatl
> - wraith

 This could of course get added onto as more classes are added or other
changes.  If you have wraith (which is a very strange race), you could almost
open up all the races (ogre, skeleton, ...)  But probably trying to have a short
list that is fairly different is better than including everything imaginable
with a lot of things which are mostly the same.

> 
> And the classes would depend on your primary skill.  I tried to create
> some ASCII graph in which the three main nodes are skills, and the
> relative position of each class represents its affinity for these
> skills.  Note that ninja and thief are based more on the agility than
> on the physical skill.
> 
>                      warrior
>                    (physical)
>                   /ninja thief\
>                  /             \
>                 /               \
>                /  cleric         \
>          monk /                   \
>              /          mage       \
>       (praying)----------------(spellcasting)
>         priest                    wizard
> 
> Some of the existing character races/classes do not fit in the picture
> very well, and maybe they should be dropped.  The ones that are not
> listed so far as a race or a class are:
> - halfling (could be a race, but what is unique about it?)
> - swashbuckler
> - viking

 One question is whether classes are even really needed or not.  If the stat
adjustment is based on race, and the selection of 'class' only does
equipment/skill type stuff (which can obviously change), you could call into
question of whether we even need a class name.

 Maybe just Hans the Human, or just 'Hans' would do.

 Historically, the race/class has been in the title, but I don't necessarily
know if we need to keep it.
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