Re: World Map (was CF: the begining of crossfire)

[Hwei Sheng TEOH <>]

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Michael Keuchen wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 07, 1999 at 11:25:00PM -0700, Mark Wedel wrote:
[snip]
> > > No need then to `fix' the world away from the free form it currently is.
> > > And map makers still control where adventurers land on the new land.
> > > Pupland especially requires you to land at the proper place on the
> > > continent and not just on any coastline.

Hmm, should we really have continents unreachable by any means except
*flying*? Right now, that's how you get to Pupland... For one thing, I think
it's a cool idea that you actually have to ride a dragon to get to those
islands. I remember Mark's idea about bribing a dragon to make it fly you to a
certain place. Now, if you could get there by ship, there won't be much point
in flying. (Unless we implement bad weather when sailing, so that sailing off
to some faraway place like that may not be that desirable.)

> >  But at least that 'fix' requires some thought on map makers.   I personally
> > think it would be more interesting if the world was a bit more cohesive - the
> > problem that starts to happen is you get all these little island continents/maps
> > because map makers like that extra control.
> > 
> >  In terms of preventing landing in the wrong area or whatever that ruins the
> > could easily be done by a few special archs.  For example, ships may require
> > deep water, so you surround the island with corral reefs or whatever (shallow
> > water) which ships can't wander in to.  That is certainly not an insurmountable
> > problem.

I got an idea... we could implement "very deep waters". Ships will be able to
cross both deep waters and "very deep" waters (I like the idea of coral reefs
and shallow waters, etc.) -- but the difference is that "very deep" waters may
sometimes get very bad weather... We could even create some nasty sea monsters
or whirlpools or whirlwinds (like in some of the Ultima series) which could
very well sink your ship. Of course, the bad weather/sea monsters will be
random, so that if you knew of a special island/continent (from some readables
in a high-level dungeon), you'd have enough time to cross the dangerous waters
before your chances of getting killed get too high. So, it would be *very*
undesirable to cross such dangerous seas, unless you know exactly where you're
going.

Which reminds me of another idea I have... currently, water is basically a
"no pass" terrain -- and is treated exactly like a wall. This sucks, because
you couldn't jump over a small river if you had the jumping skill, which,
conceptually, should be possible. Also, this precludes any water-dwelling
creatures: they won't be able to move because water is basically no-pass
terrain. Why not we implement different "mediums", like land/water? Then, we
can have a "mediums" field/list in monsters/players, that specifies exactly
what kind of terrain they are allowed to pass.

For example, players and monsters will be land creatures, so the "medium"
field is set to "land". Whereas, for water creatures this field will be set to
"water". Whenever something tries to move, if they aren't moving against a
wall/closed door/etc., the type of the terrain will be checked: land creatures
will only be allowed to move on land, and water creatures will only be allowed
to move in water.

There are several advantages for doing this:
1) we'll be able to implement moving ships quite easily -- just make ships
  have "water" in the "medium" field, and they will only move in water, and
  not move onto land (the player will have to get off the ship to get on
  land).
2) we can add water-dwelling creatures to the game, which IMHO will give it
  much more interesting. (I'm thinking about amphibians... these monsters will
  be interesting because to kill them you'd have to stop them from escaping to
  water when they are hurt -- you can't reach them once they dive into the
  water to hide.)
3) things like lava will be more smoothly implemented (IMHO) -- if we add code
  that, instead of outright preventing an object to move onto a terrain that
  isn't in its "habitable" field, we hurt the object in some way. So, a
  player would start to drown once in water, or get burned once in lava.
  Similarly, a ship will get damaged if you try to sail it onto the shore,
  and perhaps get wrecked. And on the other hand, fire creatures will happily
  live in lava and water creatures will live happily in water.
  This will make it unnecessary to write special code for lava floors, etc.

> I, on the opposite, would like the world to be less cohesive - there can be islands
> and continents that are easy to reach, but other strange lands and mysterious places
> that someone has heard of in legends, but haven't been found yet. Such a world is far
> more interesting. Why should there be an (official) world map? The beginner only needs
> an overview of his starting city and continent, but he shouldn't have an overview of
> the whole world.

We can still include the continents on the same "world map" -- just make them
unreachable from ships by corals, deep waters, etc.. If you're talking about
maps that are "another world" proper, they'd have to be treated as special
cases, I guess.

[snip]
> Third: I see four types of ships:
> 
> 1) Ferries
> Ferries are like the ships we have now, they travel from one place to a fixed other place.
> Maybe you have to pay for them, maybe travelling needs some time, maybe there is
> some animation (ship routes by movers or other solutions).
> You don't need n^2 ship routes, two or three ferries from a harbour is enough 
> and makes travelling more interesting: How to get from town A to island Z?

Good point.

> 2) Ships that are dungeon maps
> As now, like some pirate ships.

Is it possible to have ships that are both maps and "sailable" ships? This is
just a wild idea, but I thought it'd allow for interesting things like getting
on a pirate ship, kill the captain, then take over the ship and sail it where
you want!

> 3) Rowboats
> These boats can be lend (or bought), but are only usable in shallow waters around
> the actual island. There would be none in Pupland, but you can use them to explore
> the small islands around Wolfsburg.

Sounds interesting.

> 4) Owned ships as moving appartments
> Some (greater) ships are buyable (very expensive). They are like appartments
> (you can store things) and they can travel around the world, apart from the 
> restrictions for ferries (fixed destination) or rowboats (shallow, calm waters).
> Some islands (with high-level dungeons) can only be reached this way, some areas
> can never be reached (corral reefs etc.). To own a ship changes the game in 
> many terms; it should only be allowed for experienced, rich characters.
> Either you could buy it (around 100 000 platinum coins) or it is the reward of a 
> level 20 quest.

Alternatively, have different qualities of ships, so that a medium-level
character may buy a medium-quality ship which can carry only a little, can't
handle very deep waters, and needs frequent repairs. Whereas a high-level
character may purchase a better ship that can carry more stuff/players and can
sail through deep waters more safely, but also requires a more costly
maintenance.

This way, owning a ship isn't merely a pay-once-for-all thing -- you have to
maintain it, and it costs. Making it pay-once-for-all will *indeed* unbalance
the game, but forcing the player to regularly maintain it will offset this, so
that you may start out owning a good ship and sail all over the lands, but
later you run out of money to maintain and decide to sell it and settle for a
lower-quality ship which is more restricted in where it can go, but has a more
affordable cost.

Actually, now that I think about it, to offset the too-powerful-artifact
problem, do people think it's a good idea to implement a deterioration factor
into equipment, so that it's not just a matter of buying/finding a +7
supersword and be powerful forever from then on, but after you use this weapon
enough, you may have to repair it (sharpen it or strengthen the waning magical
enchantment it has). Same idea as the maintenance fee of ships above. Will
this be too cumbersome, or will it actually help in balancing the game?


T

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