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Re: CF: Unlisted potions and additions to items
- To: crossfire (at) ifi.uio.no
- Subject: Re: CF: Unlisted potions and additions to items
- From: "Doug wilder" <>
- Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:21:42 EDT
- Sender:
>Doug wilder wrote:
>
>>1. Stat Improvement potions - There is still no way to make a Stat
>> >>Increase Potion. In fact there are several Potions in the game that
>> >>have no recipe. Now i have put a lot of thought into this and the way
>> >>i think about it is the recipe should be in the game maybe as a quest
>> >>item and the items that are in the recipe should be rare but not
>> >>impossible to get. As far as i know there is only 1 Potion shop in
>> >>the whole game that works (YES, there is one in DTABB but it doesn't
>> >>work correctly) (In fact there are few shops in DTABB that do). Stat
>> >>Increase Potions are not all that rare in the game and since they are
>> >>needed as sacrifices to make items more of them are needed in it. I
>> >>dont suggest we make them more frequent or that we make them harder to
>>get just that we should be able to make them.
>A note that recipes are player (and not) character knowledge. So once >a
>player knows a recipe for something, all his characters (and friends >or
>other characters) effectively know the recipe. So making the >recipe a
>quest item only limits availability to a limited sense (of >course if
>players want to cheat, they can just look at the recipes >file in the
>source).
>One thing I would like to see done at some point is having a copy of >the
>recipe (or it otherwise being recorded that you have acquired the recipe)
>be required/give a bonus for alchemy.
OK, the process now is having to put the item (or Items) in the caldron and
closing it. the throwing Alchemy spell. This makes the item in the caldron.
What if you need to have the recipe marked as well, How would this affect
game play? (Explain how marking works as regards to the program not game
play) The way i see it, this would mean that you would have to go around
collecting those recipes and keeping them rather than dumping them or
reselling them. We could give a bonus to having the recipe marked and a
negative to not having it or just having them create usless junk. It would
make alchemy more interesting and might eliminate being able you just make
hoards of cursed stuff for the money.
We might make it so that you would have to do that just for the stat
potions.
>Availability (and trying to limit it) can be difficult. So many maps >have
>virtually unlimited monsters, even of some of the tougher types, >so any
>potions based on body parts are not easily limited. Better >refinement of
>the maps to reduce the hack and slash will help that out >some (or maybe
>just remove the default body parts all together and >instead let the map
>designers insert the specific body parts for the >leaders or whatever as
>they desire).
Refinements of the maps are needed desperately. Some dont work and some are
pointless. What i mean by point less is EXAMPLE: you enter a building in a
city there are no creatures and no items (not even a chair). Now i
personally think that its ok to have a few of these as they are great
meeting places for parties, but they dont add much.
>>
>>2. Options On Magic items - Currently we can only make armour items
>>enchanted with +'s. I suggest that we consider making them higher in
>> >>armour value as well (we can do this by also increasing the weight of
>> >>the item) While we are at it, why cant we make them resistant to
>> >>certain spells such as fire, cold, electricity and such. Most of
>> >>these items are in the game already. With making the items that we
>> >>need to make them rare and giving increased weight for the item and
>> >>also needing to be a certain level per enhancement on the item (just
>> >>like a weapon) this should cut down on power abuse as well as make
>> >>the game more interesting to play.
>Not sure how it cuts down on power abuse. Certainly, more refinement >to
>the armor and weapon improvement could be done. Perhaps some of it >is just
>having some increased chance of the item being destroyed with >the more
>enchanments on it (which effectively limits its power in a a >probably more
>interesting way than item to character level >comparisons).
Weight in my opinion is a great way of cutting down abuse of power,
Especially for mage types. But mostly i was thinking of the way weapons are
setup. you can only put so many enhancements on them per level. Why not the
same way for armor? That would be a way of controlling how much magic you
could invest. I wonder if we could also deduct permanent spell points from
the mages total for investing it into the item. This might be gotten back by
buying lots of improvement potions (not stat potions) It would make them
incredibly valuable, especially to mages. Most people over look their value
anyway.
> Balance is carefully needed. My opinion is that artifact items >should
>still pretty much be the best you can find unless you are >really high
>level and make your own items. That may only diminish the >desire for item
>improvements by a small amount - many artifacts may >have attributes that
>are not very interesting - if you have a pile of >fire resistance potions,
>that fire protection that dragon armor gives >isn't that critical.
>
>But this could also go with the alchemy stuff above - currently, some
> >items, like dragon armour & shield & eye shield become fairly magical
> >just by being made - it may be more interesting that those dragon >hides
>turn into non magical armor with some fire protection, and >further
>improvements are then done.
I agree
>>But There are weapons in the game that do more than that. How are >>these
>>items created? Is it possible to make them. Technically no! I >>wouldn't
>>suggest that we be able to make a +3 Bone Crusher (slay >>skeletons) +50
>>damage weight 150. i dont think it would be possible >>given the 5+1 per 5
>>levels that stop power abuse and besides there >>should be special weapons
>>out there. But i suggest that we should be >>able to make a +3 longsword
>>+2 STR +1 dam Pro: Fire at 12th level. >>The only difference is that we
>>cant make Weapons that are Pro: >>ANYTHING. We can make them slaying if we
>>are members of a cult that >>doesnt like certain monsters. Giving an item
>>a Pro: abilility should >>also be with in our realm of abilities. Saying
>>that we dont wish to >>give this ability to weapons still doesn't stop us
>>from giving us the >>ability to give it to Armour.
>
>See note above. My thought on this is that artifacts (demon bane,
> >excalibur & the like) were made in the distant past, perhaps by the
> >gods, but certainly when there was more power for people to make these
> >things. The problem as mentioned above is that if players can make
> >items as good as the artifacts, there quickly loses much desire to >ever
>get these artifacts, and I don't really like that idea.
I agree, but i have looked at alot of these artifact items. Most of them are
not all that great as far as game play goes. Excalibur and BoneCrusher are
great items Sting is rather whimpy. How many 8th level
Warriors go around bragging they have STING? At low levels you still cant
stand up to a troll and at higher levels you would probably have somthing
much better. In my opinion the artifacts are still to easy to get.
>>
>>4. Rings amulets Girdles - Whats wrong with the ability to make >>them.
>>Maybe we could make a blank girdle, ring and amulet that does >>nothing.
>>There are already scrolls in the game like that. Maybe we >>can make a
>>quest that you would have to complete taht would flip and >>identifier on
>>your character thats says yes you may now make greater >>items like
>>girdles, rings and such. The items for making scrolls >>already exsist in
>>the game. I have seen empty scrolls, pens and i saw >>something to do with
>>making ink. Why cant we write scrolls?
>
>You can write scrolls - I don't remember the exact way to do it, but >it
>can be done.
>
> Note that many of these features are things that did not exist at >one
>time. Not too incredibly long ago, you could not even enchant >armor. The
>problem with all of these is play balance. Just the >addition of boots and
>cloaks increased players power by some amount some artifact boots have been
>around for a long time, but now you have >more generic boots that increase
>AC, as well as cloaks).
>>
>>Just some thoughts, I realize im not a programer but the years i >>have
>>been a gamer have made me very strong in game theory. A complete >>game is
>>much more interesting to play than one in which your greatest >>ambition
>>is to kill the biggest monster.
>>
>>Does anyone have a list of the current quests in the standard >>version of
>>Crossfire. Maybe, we could arrange a story line to cover them and include
>>them into a big picture and tie them all together?
>
> how do you really define quests? There are some maps with defined >goals
>and special items at the end, but there are not many of those. >Most of
>the maps are more generic - kill everything on sight, and find >a big
>random treasure hoard at the end which may have some good >stuff. Playing
>other games (might & magic is what I am currently >into), the idea of more
>official quests is nice - this gives the >players some better direction. I
>would really like to see something >similar in crossfire - you can go to
>the town hall or whatever and get >quests, and after you complete them and
>come back, you actually get >some real reward. Currently, the reward for
>all requests is just what >loot you have found.
I like the idea of offical quests with (worthwhile) rewards. Even giving
money out is a good reward or maybe a potion or 2. The Quest should give out
a reward appropriate to the quest.
Quests are not all that hard to design, making the maps might be but a good
quest hall could make things very interesting. Speaking of this if you
designed a map how would you get it incorperated into the standard game so
that everyone could have it. Does anyone go over the maps that are created
seeing if they work. There might be many good maps in the repository that
are going to waste simply because no one has looked at them and put them
into place. However, i would suggest we fix the maps in the game first.
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