Re: CF: Unlisted potions and additions to items

[Mark Wedel <>]

Doug wilder wrote:

> 1. Stat Improvement potions - There is still no way to make a Stat Increase
> Potion. In fact there are several Potions in the game that have no recipe.
> Now i have put a lot of thought into this and the way i think about it is
> the recipe should be in the game maybe as a quest item and the items that
> are in the recipe should be rare but not impossible to get. As far as i know
> there is only 1 Potion shop in the whole game that works (YES, there is one
> in DTABB but it doesn't work correctly) (In fact there are few shops in
> DTABB that do). Stat Increase Potions are not all that rare in the game and
> since they are needed as sacrifices to make items more of them are needed in
> it. I dont suggest we make them more frequent or that we make them harder to
> get just that we should be able to make them.

 A note that recipes are player (and not) character knowledge.  So once a player
knows a recipe for something, all his characters (and friends or other
characters) effectively know the recipe.  So making the recipe a quest item only
limits availability to a limited sense (of course if players want to cheat, they
can just look at the recipes file in the source).

 One thing I would like to see done at some point is having a copy of the recipe
(or it otherwise being recorded that you have acquired the recipe) be
required/give a bonus for alchemy.

 Availability (and trying to limit it) can be difficult.  So many maps have
virtually unlimited monsters, even of some of the tougher types, so any potions
based on body parts are not easily limited.  Better refinement of the maps to
reduce the hack and slash will help that out some (or maybe just remove the
default body parts all together and instead let the map designers insert the
specific body parts for the leaders or whatever as they desire).

> 
> 2. Options On Magic items - Currently we can only make armour items
> enchanted with +'s. I suggest that we consider making them higher in armour
> value as well (we can do this by also increasing the weight of the item)
> While we are at it, why cant we make them resistant to certain spells such
> as fire, cold, electricity and such. Most of these items are in the game
> already. With making the items that we need to make them rare and giving
> increased weight for the item and also needing to be a certain level per
> enhancement on the item (just like a weapon) this should cut down on power
> abuse as well as make the game more interesting to play.

 Not sure how it cuts down on power abuse.

 Certainly, more refinement to the armor and weapon improvement could be done. 
Perhaps some of it is just having some increased chance of the item being
destroyed with the more enchanments on it (which effectively limits its power in
a a probably more interesting way than item to character level comparisons).

 Balance is carefully needed.  My opinion is that artifact items should still
pretty much be the best you can find unless you are really high level and make
your own items.  That may only diminish the desire for item improvements by a
small amount - many artifacts may have attributes that are not very interesting
- if you have a pile of fire resistance potions, that fire protection that
dragon armor gives isn't that critical.

 But this could also go with the alchemy stuff above - currently, some items,
like dragon armour & shield & eye shield become fairly magical just by being
made - it may be more interesting that those dragon hides turn into non magical
armor with some fire protection, and further improvements are then done.

> But There are weapons in the game that do more than that.  How are these
> items created? Is it possible to make them. Technically no! I wouldn't
> suggest that we be able to make a +3 Bone Crusher (slay skeletons) +50
> damage weight 150. i dont think it would be possible given the 5+1 per 5
> levels that stop power abuse and besides there should be special weapons out
> there. But i suggest that we should be able to make a +3 longsword +2 STR +1
> dam Pro: Fire at 12th level. The only difference is that we cant make
> Weapons that are Pro: ANYTHING. We can make them slaying if we are members
> of a cult that doesnt like certain monsters. Giving an item a Pro: abilility
> should also be with in our realm of abilities. Saying that we dont wish to
> give this ability to weapons still doesn't stop us from giving us the
> ability to give it to Armour.

 See note above.  My thought on this is that artifacts (demon bane, excalibur &
the like) were made in the distant past, perhaps by the gods, but certainly when
there was more power for people to make these things.  The problem as mentioned
above is that if players can make items as good as the artifacts, there quickly
loses much desire to ever get these artifacts, and I don't really like that
idea.

> 
> 4. Rings amulets Girdles - Whats wrong with the ability to make them. Maybe
> we could make a blank girdle, ring and amulet that does nothing. There are
> already scrolls in the game like that. Maybe we can make a quest that you
> would have to complete taht would flip and identifier on your character
> thats says yes you may now make greater items like girdles, rings and such.
> The items for making scrolls already exsist in the game. I have seen empty
> scrolls, pens and i saw something to do with making ink. Why cant we write
> scrolls?

 You can write scrolls - I don't remember the exact way to do it, but it can be
done.

 Note that many of these features are things that did not exist at one time. 
Not too incredibly long ago, you could not even enchant armor.  The problem with
all of these is play balance.  Just the addition of boots and cloaks increased
players power by some amount (some artifact boots have been around for a long
time, but now you have more generic boots that increase AC, as well as cloaks).

> 
> Just some thoughts, I realize im not a programer but the years i have been a
> gamer have made me very strong in game theory. A complete game is much more
> interesting to play than one in which your greatest ambition is to kill the
> biggest monster.
> 
> Does anyone have a list of the current quests in the standard version of
> Crossfire. Maybe, we could arrange a story line to cover them and include
> them into a big picture and tie them all together?

 how do you really define quests?  There are some maps with defined goals and
special items at the end, but there are not many of those.  Most of the maps are
more generic - kill everything on sight, and find a big random treasure hoard at
the end which may have some good stuff.  Playing other games (might & magic is
what I am currently into), the idea of more official quests is nice - this gives
the players some better direction.  I would really like to see something similar
in crossfire - you can go to the town hall or whatever and get quests, and after
you complete them and come back, you actually get some real reward.  Currently,
the reward for all requests is just what loot you have found.
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