Re: CF: skill categories and sub-skills

[David Andrew Michael Noelle <>]

> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:14:13 -0700
> From: Mark Wedel <>
>
>  disarming magical traps is always sort of odd.  How does someone disarm that
> rune sitting on the floor?  Presumably it is not being triggered by some
> mechanical means, but rather by someone touching the rune.

That's how I always figured rune traps must work.  For a rune on the
floor, one might "disarm" it merely by realizing it's there and
finding a suitable way to traverse that area of floor without touching
the rune.  It could then be considered "disarmed" by assuming that you
remember where it is and how to avoid it.  This has very little to do
with prematurely triggering needle or disabling the trigger on a set
of blades.


>  You could change this by needing to use spells to actually get rid of runes. 
> You could still jump and fly over them safely, and this may actually give more
> reason for players to use those skills.  Some maps are just chock full of runes
> however.

Avoiding them makes sense for many uses of runes, but doesn't explain
why someone else who didn't see you sidestep the rune no longer has to
worry about it.  Dispelling runes as the only means of disarming them
works fine for casters, but makes a theif's work a great deal harder.
Perhaps runes on doors or chests, for which avoidance simply isn't
relevant, can be "disarmed" by somehow erasing or effacing part of the
rune with some inert instrument, thus turning the magical writing into
meaningless graffitti.  That is about the closest thing I can think of
to a "disarm" skill for runes, and it still hasn't got a thing to do
with the skills involved in detecting and disarming mechanical traps.


>  While I can see some rationale why find traps and disarming them fall into
> different skill categories, it seems that they should be related somehow.  AD&D
> certainly did this - it is one skill.  It just seems odd that you could
> theoretically have a player that could disarm any trap, but can never find them
> to disarm them in the first place.

Well, it /is/ only possible in theory, since you can't attempt to
disarm a trap until you've already found it and gained experience for
doing so, and in theory, what's so unreasonable about being good with
your hands and very mechanically-minded, but somewhat observationally-
challenged?  That's what makes gnome engineers so much fun.

 
Another little glitch in the trap skills: everyone starts with level 1
detect traps and disarm traps skills, whether they're a thief, wizard,
fireborn, or barbarian.  I would suggest that when classes are
dissociated from races, a "level 0" should be implemented, perhaps
ranging from 0 exp to 99 exp, and guilds should give their initiates
those first 100 points to bring them up to level 1 in all the
appropriate skills, so that the character's total level after leaving
the guild will be somewhere in the middle of level 1.

Which reminds me - has anyone else noticed that spellcasters actually
start at level 2?  They get two free spellbooks, each of which grants
1,000 exp if read successfully.  Instant 2,000 exp head start.  Until
they venture into the newbie house, use up their one spell, and get
killed by the second kobold, that is.


>  Many games give you some set of points after gaining a level, and you then divy
> them up amongst your skills.  They don't really work in the sense that you may
> not have used that skill at all, OTOH, they probably improve the game some in
> that some skills may simply be unworkable (to failure prone with deadly
> consequences) to improve by use, so you need some other way to improve them.  I
> don't know if we want to go that way.

Personally, I never really liked that method.  In addition to the fact
that learning skills by gaining a level before you ever try using them
is just backwards, it would severely complicate the whole killing =
experience gain - death = experience loss cycle.


>  I'm still not convinced that diminishing skills really adds anything either.  I
> think it will end up being unpopular, and players will just find workarounds.  I
> think it also adds complication - should performing the action just once reset
> the timer (ie, climb one mountain and you are safe again for 5000 ticks?)

Actually, non-perma-death mode already gives us deteriorating skills.
If you stop using a skill, the experience you lose from that skill
every time you die never gets recovered.




-- 
            -Dave Noelle,                 
            -the Villa Straylight,  http://www.straylight.org
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